Fishing with particles

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

Hello all , to cut down on the bait bill with pellets ground bait and commercial type baits I'm going to give particle baits a go .

On a lake I fish I mainly fish close in , so fed by hand or cati .

I can buy 20kg sacks of pigeon conditioner for £14 . What the best way to prepare it I know it has to be cooked after do I soak with hot or cold water and anything else I can add ?

Also once cooked and cooled down how long can it be kept and used for ?

Thanks

mikench · May 14, 2017

Isn't that an oxymoron Matt i.e. Pigeon conditioner ?

Sorry I cannot help Matt but I have used particles but like many of my piscatorial recipes, they have ended in failure. I will stick with the tried and trusted from the tackle shop.

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

Thanks anyway mike , I been told that carp love these type of particles and thought surley it's worth a go when a sack would last a long time when pellets and groundbait per kg is a lot more .

Surley when seeds soaked and cooked it swells up so more ?

I have cooked hemp and soaked for 48 hours but I found even after cooking for 45 mins still wasn't split enough .

Any tips for that ?

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mikench · May 14, 2017

I buy mine Matt. I do prepare maple peas myself as I retain half to eat myself! They are delicious served with vinegar and black pepper!! Surely you have tried this northern delicacy !

sam vimes · May 14, 2017

How a particle mix should be prepared depends on what exactly is in the mix.
Some mixes don't actually need to be boiled at all, an extended soaking will do. Others need a bit more, boiling water in a flask or cool box can do, but some require a full on boil the bejasus out of it followed by an extended soak.

Hemp not splitting, even after an extended boiling, is getting increasingly common. I suspect that the quality and variety of hemp we are being sold is not what it once was. However, unless you need split hemp for the hook, I've not found the fish remotely bothered by unsplit hemp seeds.

How long a cooked/soaked mix will last depends on what's in it and how and where it's stored. If in doubt, drain it down, bag it and bung it in the freezer. However, it's worth noting that some folks get rather good results with particle mixes that have gone well beyond what I'd consider acceptably ripe. Sometimes what you can stomach using might be more important. I've encountered a few anglers using particles that I'd have dumped because the smell makes me nauseous from twenty yards away.

thecrow · May 14, 2017

associatedmatt said:
I have cooked hemp and soaked for 48 hours but I found even after cooking for 45 mins still wasn't split enough .

Any tips for that ?

If it isn't the very large hemp that is almost impossible to split its almost certainly because you have been sold old hemp, I had the same problem a few weeks ago I went back to the shop showed it to him and he gave me some fresh stuff which split easily.

If you get some fresher hemp from a shop with a decent turnover of it and compare it to the old stuff you will be able to see the difference.

103841 · May 14, 2017

If you're looking to cut down your bait bill, you can go further. My last trip to the estate lake included taking a loaf of bread which was for both hook and mashed up to bring attraction, a tin of meat and some lobworms, cost £1-50.

tigger · May 14, 2017

The only particles I ever use are pellets (if myfriend gets me the for free) and sweet corn, can't be ar$ed messin with the rest....lifes to short to be cookin' for fish !

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

Thanks lads for the input , Its similar thing to when go into a tackle shop and you end up buying this bag or pellets and a bag of groundbait oh and il try these too before you know it over a few months when i fish most weekends you end up with loads of bags of comercial based baits .

Im going to try and only buy groundbait / micro pellets for my feeder work as half the time i end up balling it in throughout the session to attract the fish . But surely there is something you can add to a soft particle mix like milk powder / custard powder etc to create a cloud of attractant when thrown in

Sam , from what you say about different rates of soaking and cooking . Whats a guideline to start with pigeon conditioner ? soak for 48 hours and then cook untill you can get some of the bigger seeds and they squish easily ?

Oh does particles like this attract the tench too ?

cheers

mikench · May 14, 2017

In my experience nothing attracts tench

sam vimes · May 14, 2017

associatedmatt said:
Sam , from what you say about different rates of soaking and cooking . Whats a guideline to start with pigeon conditioner ? soak for 48 hours and then cook untill you can get some of the bigger seeds and they squish easily ?

Depends on the mix. The term pigeon conditioner covers quite a few variations.

Philip · May 14, 2017

associatedmatt said:
Hello all , to cut down on the bait bill with pellets ground bait and commercial type baits I'm going to give particle baits a go .

On a lake I fish I mainly fish close in , so fed by hand or cati .

I can buy 20kg sacks of pigeon conditioner for £14 . What the best way to prepare it I know it has to be cooked after do I soak with hot or cold water and anything else I can add ?

Also once cooked and cooled down how long can it be kept and used for ?

Thanks

I use Pigeon mix for exactly the reason you mention Matt…to cut down on cost. I use it to prebait on rivers and I use so much of the stuff I probably keep the pigeon mix business afloat single handedly. (I jest but I use allot). I have buckets of the stuff on the go literally every day at the moment and have 2 buckets soaking in the shed as I type this in fact. A 20kg sack cooks up to about 30kg.

There are several varieties but what you need to look at is what is the grain in there that’s going to take the longest to cook. In most cases its going to be maize. So base your cooking time around maize and you wont go to far wrong.

If you starting out using particles take a google around on how to prepare them. Basically a 24 hour soak (hot or cold) and then a boil of say 20mins should do it…don’t skip the soak …it cuts the cooking time after. You should be able to crush a grain between your finger and thumb after.

I would mix in some pellets and hookbaits as well when you bait up.

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

mikench said:
In my experience nothing attracts tench

Not when mikes on the end of the rod

try going to a lake with tench in :wh

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sam vimes said:
Depends on the mix. The term pigeon conditioner covers quite a few variations.

exactly ! There is a local trading estate pet shop that sells alot of bulk pet foods like dogs and horse feeds etc but alot of bird seeds as sell alot of birds about 30 types of bird foods ! but only 1 pigeon conditioner smells fairly sweet as i found out when left in the van for 3 days

mg:

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Philip said:
I use Pigeon mix for exactly the reason you mention Matt…to cut down on cost. I use it to prebait on rivers and I use so much of the stuff I probably keep the pigeon mix business afloat single handedly. (I jest but I use allot). I have buckets of the stuff on the go literally every day at the moment and have 2 buckets soaking in the shed as I type this in fact. A 20kg sack cooks up to about 30kg.

There are several varieties but what you need to look at is what is the grain in there that’s going to take the longest to cook. In most cases its going to be maize. So base your cooking time around maize and you wont go to far wrong.

If you starting out using particles take a google around on how to prepare them. Basically a 24 hour soak (hot or cold) and then a boil of say 20mins should do it…don’t skip the soak …it cuts the cooking time after. You should be able to crush a grain between your finger and thumb after.

I would mix in some pellets and hookbaits as well when you bait up.

Cheers Phillip , i find groundbaits can soon add up when its around £6 for 2 kg even when bulk it out with brown crumb .

when you add pellets i assume 4mm and 2mm keeping small particles and i guess you add on the day ?

Keeping stored if i kept in a sealed small bucket in the fridge would it keep for around a month once cooked and water drained ?

Thinking to cook 2 kg up and keep in fridge and take out when i need some for loose feed for margin fishing .

robtherake · May 14, 2017

I use the pigeon conditioner that smells of aniseed, when I can get it - the name escapes me, but it might be red band?. It's simmered for an hour or more with chilli, salt and molasses (and/or malt extract) and is then left to firkle in its own juices for a few days. If it grows a crust it just gets stirred in. I definitely find that the fermented stuff is a far better attractor than a freshly prepared mix. When it starts to pong and go milky it's at its peak, though I've used particle mixes that were months old with good results. Fermented hemp on its own is a brilliant attractor.

The feed supplier that I use sells a wheat and rolled maize mix that's also pretty good. It takes up loads of water so you get a lot for the money once it's prepared.

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

I guess particle bait is quite a traditional bait due to how cheap it is ?

The amount of pellets and groundbaits now is redicalous ! And the cost too

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Philip · May 14, 2017

associatedmatt said:
Cheers Phillip , i find groundbaits can soon add up when its around £6 for 2 kg even when bulk it out with brown crumb . when you add pellets i assume 4mm and 2mm keeping small particles and i guess you add on the day ? Keeping stored if i kept in a sealed small bucket in the fridge would it keep for around a month once cooked and water drained ? Thinking to cook 2 kg up and keep in fridge and take out when i need some for loose feed for margin fishing .

Actually in my case as I use a boile as hookbait I try and stick the biggest pellets I can in there as I want to avoid the fish becoming too preoccupied on the small grains. In reality I often put a few handfuls of sinking dog biscuits in as I can get them cheaper than pellets (again with Volume & cost in mind) but again keep in mind I am chucking allot into rivers so its probably not exactly the same sort of fishing your doing, I am more concerned about quantity than quality. Make sure you have at least some of your hookbaits in there so they know to expect that.

Storage wise a month in a fridge I thinks ok but you could also freeze it in bags. Take out a bag at a time when you need it. Again in my case which is probably a bit specific I dont even bother freezing anymore, I just have a few buckets of the stuff in the shed which if it starts to turn a bit too much I chuck it in and cook up a new lot.

cg74 · May 14, 2017

s63 said:
If you're looking to cut down your bait bill, you can go further. My last trip to the estate lake included taking a loaf of bread which was for both hook and mashed up to bring attraction, a tin of meat and some lobworms, cost £1-50.

£1.50 would buy me a kilo of pellets, 3 cans of corn for 69p. Shared over 3 sessions that's 73p a session and I know that combination will catch even cagey carp.

Matt I'm not saying don't use particles but don't get hung up on price per kilo as the likes of vitalin are bulked up with rice and oats which even carp tend to ignore.

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Here's a basic particle preparation guide: How to prepare cook particle baits for fishing

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

I like to know where your getting a kg of pellets for £1.50 for a not even a kg 900g in local shop it's £3.50 and £4.50 for micros depending on what make and if go bigger pellet size price goes up . Only thing that gets to me is carp pellets that don't sink ! Someone suggested dynamite baits xl pellets and there ok but again a well know manufacture so high price .

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Oh and I get my corn in tins by the tray full from aldi which is big tins and 49p a tin I think and plus it's the best corn I found for fishing

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cg74 · May 14, 2017

£1.50 was a rough ball-park figure, I can buy good quality pellets for as little as £1.32 a kilo.
Skrettings Coarse Fish Carp Pellets – Pure Pellet Carp Pellets | Fishing Bait | Fishing Pellets | Wholesale Fishing Pellets

Regards pellets from Dynamite Baits, you do know they don't make their own?

associatedmatt · May 14, 2017

Never knew that , thing is with skrettings , I find they float too much for my liking !

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Fishing with particles

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