Whips, flick tips and things.

Sounds like it should be in an adult section but I'm talking schoolboy fishing and you're never to old to learn new tricks.

I've started fishing a venue that holds prolific shoals of Rudd, I have a pole but it's quite heavy for margin carp fishing and thinking a nice light flick tip whip would be the way to go. It's a huge water but the shoals come right into the margins. I'm guessing many of the fish would be swung to hand but they do go to one and a half pound.

I know little about such things, any reccomendations for a suitable piece of kit, I'd guess a 5m length.

I assume without elastic it's a good idea to use a mono with decent stretching qualities?

I have never seen or understood whips , within the fishing context of course, so will be interested in the responses to decide if I am missing out on something

If it is anything like a pole with all the attendant rollers and messing about then I will not pursue my interest any further

I bought some 4m whips for my kids years back for canal work. They certainly caught plenty of fish. No elastic just a clip at the end. Bought some ready made rigs and off they went. That's about as much as I know about them

Whip fishing is generally fished to hand with a flick tip. If fishing for Rudd then I would go for a three or 4 metre whip with a small antenna waggler.

Why a whip when you can use the top 2 or 3 of a pole?

Wilko said:

Why a whip when you can use the top 2 or 3 of a pole?

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I was of the understanding that a flick tip type whip had a solid carbon tip which I guess is a bit softer than using a regular top 2?

s63 said:

I was of the understanding that a flick tip type whip had a solid carbon tip which I guess is a bit softer than using a regular top 2?

Click to expand...

I honestly don't know but it seems to me that a pole would do the same job with the versatility of being able to handle the bigger stuff if need you hook into one?

Whips are really for catching small fish to hand quickly usually in a match fishing situation.
Small roach, gonks,bleak, on the canal often.

However nowadays you are likely to encounter a much bigger fish and get crashed off.
If there is chance of that happening then elastic insurance is probably the way to go on the top 3 of a pole.

Whips and small cheap poles can be great fun. There is a lot of conflicting opinions regarding the definition of a pole. When I first talked about this some time ago there was no clear definition of what is what, but so long as we know what each other is referring to that is all that matters. My own conclusion was that a short length of whatever (usually carbon today) with a solid tip and the line connected directly to that is what I would call a whip. Once it becomes elasticated I would call it a pole. That is just how I have rationalised it to myself, I am not saying I am right, but in the absence of any solid guidance that is my conclusion.

Right, that said. I really like messing about with both. It can be great fun and you can easily land some reasonable sized fish with a cheap, elasticated tele-pole.

With a whip, the springy top section acts as a shock absorber and the fish is played on that then swung to hand. I always use a line and a hooklength just in case I hook a much bigger fish.

With my cheap tele-poles I can land some fairly large fish, depending on what elastic I am using. they are so cheap I have several of then now, elasticated with different strengths of elastic. The bung, elastic, PTFE bush and connector will cost more than the pole!

Some cheap poles come 'elasticated' but that usually means a length of elastic tied to a length of line with a washer tied to that, which jams in the pole as it narrows. This is how I have elasticated my tele-poles and so far it seems to work just fine.

You can spend a lot more, but I tried it with the cheap stuff and have had great fun with that. I planned to up-grade it if I liked it but so far I have not seen the need. I think it would be a different matter if it was for match fishing, but I know you, like me, prefer the relaxed atmosphere of what is commonly known as 'pleasure fishing'.

If you want to have a go without spending any money, you can try any of my whips/tele-poles out first if you fancy getting together for a day by the lake...

Ralph.

Thanks for the offer Ralph. My understanding of the difference between a whip and a pole is exactly the same as yours, we must be right!

I've just splashed out £13 for a Leeda 5m whip with both a solid tip and one that can be elasticated, two beers in a pub cost me the same last week, still recoveringmg: hopefully the whip will give a bit more value for money.

How do you attach your mainline to a flick tip? I've seen two methods so far, attach to a storno connector or using a double loop attached to the tip using silicone sleeves.

Wilko said:

Why a whip when you can use the top 2 or 3 of a pole?

Click to expand...

Because it is far easier to swing small fish to hand with a whip than it is with a top 3 that is elasticated.


n efficient hands a short whip can land 3 or 4 fish a minute, I've seen it and done it myself.
You would never get into that sort of a rhythm with an elasticated top set, even with power gum in it.

Three or four a minute? Used to reckon on 9 or 10 a minute, occasionally shading 11 or 12 on a very good day for short periods. I can remember being on a bleak shoal on the Stour and a spectator leaning over the bridge overlooking my swim and remarking that I was catching 6 a minute and replying, "Yes, I know". The big problems with speed fishing were overcoming boredom and keeping both yourself and the fish going at sustained pace. It was usual to lose pace by the last hour as fatigue set in but by then the match was (usually) won.

Had a few bonus fish on the whip (non elasticated) over the years; 4lb tench and bream, 5lb carp and even a 3lb barbel...

s63, So far I have used the two pieces of silicone method. I do have a posh 8m whip, I bought from a mutual chippy acquaintance of ours, that has a braided loop connector on the tip (similar to the fly line connectors). I have not used it yet, but it looks good!

Cheaper tele-poles sometimes come with metal ring fitted in the end, that you can attach the line to. I have never tried it, but I guess it would work. The last one I bought like that I cut down to make a cupping kit to match one of my other tele-poles. See about half way down HERE. I was using bread that day on an elasticated 5m tele-pole. I placed a bowl of bread flake 5m along the bank, propped up with a bait box, so I could scoop a cup full without having to ship it in and out. Just scooped it out of the bowl and swung it out to where I was fishing my matching length tele-pole. Works a treat and first dip I caught a reasonable sized bream that was great fun to land - carefully!

Ralph.

I also think that for flick tips, wrapping the line around the top section and trapping with silicone is better than those mini glue-on stonfos that load all the stress on the most fragile point.
And I agree that elasticating a fine hollow tip with a light-ish elastic makes for a more versatile tool, with a bit of cushion from the tip and some insurance.
I've got number 4 elastic in this one - the biggest I could get through it. The whip is a Daiwa SR2 7m. But I've cheerfully used all sorts of cheaper ones, and sometimes the cheaper ones have the softer, sweeter actions.
There are some lovely floats for the job on Ebay - look for whip wagglers - like these. I know short-lining is more accurate etc, but with a whip you can flick a float out, sink the line if needed and have an ideal set up for free-feeding fish like the rudd you describe.

Won a stack of coin back in the 70/80s on the Trent, using a Shakespeare super team whip between 5m and 8m. Mainly for gudgeon and bleak but also for roach and skimmers. The catching rates Mark refers to are correct. When on bleak (whittling, as we used to call them) it was the case you cast it out, counted to three, drew it towards you and there was a fish on. Using a spade end hook with the tag left long and double maggot you could go 15 to 20 fish before rebaiting. I always preferred attaching the rig with a loop and tubing over a stonfo . Pete.

As Mark said in his post,whips are for speed fishing,small rudd to 6ozs are perfect,any larger and then you have to play them and although you have no problem doing this it isn't what a whip is for,the cheaper ones are usually a little too soft,which slows the strike and lift style the whip is adept,as Mark also says it does become boring in a pleasure fishing session as you have no actual end result to aim for,ie a match win,I like Mark have landed decent fish on them,carp included,but good luck is needed and it is no use having a faint heart because you've basically get the upper hand early,win or lose,with a fair few being lost over time...but fishing single squat on a 26 I didn't expect to hook any carp anyhow...:wh

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

I remember those days well Pete,I once won a match at Sawley on the Trent with 34lbs odd of bleak,roach,dace,perch,gudgeon,chublets and even three small barbel counting them out,had an old mate come behind me and after a while he came out with 'I haven't seen your float go under yet, when I explained he was gobsmacked.

I didn't realise it at the time but I was a lucky lad to stand behind Ray Mumford as he fished the whip on the Thames winning many a match with huge numbers of bleak, all wearing a shirt and tie too.

Don't know what he was like back then,but he became wackier than a barrel load of monkeys,a long while before he passed away,he lived locally,I read of his exploits in my match fishing days.

The problem with using a POLE (so top 3, 4, 5 sections say of your main pole) is that it doesn’t have the flexible action of a whip and so cannot ‘cast’ or flick out tiny, light floats. You’ll need more effort and that will stress the pole (casting overhead will, most likely, snap the pole). Your main ‘long’ pole isn’t designed to flex like a whip and is deliberately designed to be stiff. Whips will flick out rigs even as tiny as 4 x 8.

A double silicone attachment at the top end is excellent as you leave the silicone joining rig to whip long so it acts like a tiny ‘Crook’ and helps keep the line away from the tip and avoid wrap overs.

A top and bottom float is normally better as it shows bites with a sideways movement which bottom end floats don’t. Very often your bite isn’t the float dipping etc etc just how it settles – or not.

This is about the most confusing thread I have read on here since the chefsters match reports (where has he gone? ) never having fished with a pole or whip or flick tip I have no understanding of them or the associated bits at all. I did own a pole years ago but it was never used to catch fish just for dropping a bait dropper inbetween weed beds, after a few times using it I felt as if I needed back surgery