Hook sizes - I'm confused

fishplate42 · Jun 6, 2017

I know it is not too hard to confuse me when it comes to the nitty-gritty of angling, but hook sizes are a mystery to me. The meat hooking thread has been talking about hooks being sized the same but being totally different.

I have had this problem with dropshotting hooks and I understood the number related to the distance between the point of the hook and the shaft (the gape?) but how does that work when you have a 'wide gap' size 16 or a normal size 16?

Can someone explain what the sizes actually relate to?

Thanks,
Ralph.

Teabreak · Jun 6, 2017

Good question. Confused myself over shape/ description. Wide, carp maggot, circle, silverfish, etc. Get on the bank and think, where's my size 16 sweet corn and single maggot tench circle microbarbed teflon coated gold coloured extra strong diamond tipped hook to nylon I need today.

robcourt82 · Jun 6, 2017

As far as I'm aware there isn't a recognised industry standard to determine a hooks size. I think its just kind of recognised that a 24 is small and a 4 is big (in course fishing terms) and that manufacturers just lable there hooks to fit that scale.
I wouldn't let it worry you, I stick to just a few patterns for my fishing and I'd always recommend you use the biggest hook you can get bites with.

---------- Post added at 04:17 ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 ----------

Tea break,

I can see where the confusion could come from. The descriptions basically describe the shape and width of the bend, the length of the shank and the strength of the wire.

binka · Jun 6, 2017

I just stick to what I use which narrows things down a bit, these are:

J hook round bend standard
J hook round bend wide gape
J hook crystal bend
Circles
Trebles

All the other things like micro barbs, ptfe coated, long shank, X-strong etc. are all specific variations for specific things so they are added to whichever hook I'm buying for the job.

All of the standard forms I keep as basic requirements, it's surprising how many variations you do end up buying though and I've often bought hooks for a specific job that I've already got

mg:

I think there used to be an official scale (Redditch Scale?) for hooks sizes, I'm pretty sure Peter Jacobs knows as I recall him mentioning it before but I can't remember how it came to vary.

rich66 · Jun 6, 2017

My understanding is the Redditch scale is the official scale from years back when hooks where made by very few manufacturers. Nowadays everybody seems to make them to their own size.

mikench · Jun 6, 2017

I am very poor at changing hooks during a session unless it is for a different method but do try to do so after the 6th bream or so. I recently changed a size 12 for a 14 when bites were scarce and the latter was bigger!

The photo posted by Binka was scary for hooks supposedly of the same size!

Richox12 · Jun 6, 2017

There is now no industry standard. It is a total minefield but it needn’t be.

I think about what fish I want to catch (hopefully) and with what bait, what diameter of line (more important than strength when tying spade ends) and start from there. If I change sizes within one type – Super Spade just for example - I know that the 14 will be bigger in shank length and gape than the 16 or 18. So no problem at all there. If I change my Super Spade 14 for A.N.Other make or type in size 14 it can be totally different, bigger, smaller, longer shank, shorter shank etc etc. But the reason for me changing is to achieve something different. I only use the size number as a guide and I actually look at the hooks I have (I have obviously bought them for a reason/use in the first place otherwise they wouldn’t even be in my box) and gauge what I need myself. So if I end up changing my Super Spade 14 for another type also in a 14 it will be because it’s a different hook no matter the size number and have a different use or effect on my fishing.

I don’t use every size in each type I may well restrict certain patterns to certain sizes, sometimes even just two sizes before swapping to something different when I want something bigger or smaller.

john step · Jun 6, 2017

The Redditch Scale I believe was the old industry standard. Redditch was the centre of hook manafature as an off shoot of the established needle making enterprise centred there.

Since all the various hooks being imported its a free for all. Best choose a pattern and size by sight.

I think Kamasan in the B types ie B520, B611 etc are the closest to to old standards.
I may be right or wrong in thinking Drennan is the owner which if correct explains the reason.

Peter Jacobs · Jun 6, 2017

The Redditch Hook Scale was for many years the "standard" here in the UK.

Redditch became the UK hook capital making good use of the needle making skills and plants in the town.

The scale laid down hook size, bend type, wire gauge etc., but when hook manufacture started all over
the world then different manufacturers made up their own scales, and for mthen on hook sizes began to vary.

No doubt some pedant or other will have different views but that is how I was taught.

Fish Hooks

binka · Jun 6, 2017

Purely as a money saving aside, does anyone re-use their spade ends?

I only used to re-use eyed as they were so easy to snip off and slip back in the pack but I now carry a fag lighter and burn away the whipping on the spade, I've been doing it for quite a while now with no adverse affects... All subject to the hook still being perfectly sharp which they more often than not are.

You only need to flash the flame close to the line and then brush it clean away with your thumb nail.

That's what comes from living so close to the South Yorkshire border, it's like foot 'n mouth and some of their tight fistedness travels on the wind :wh :wh :wh

103841 · Jun 6, 2017

Even hooks from the same brand can vary wildly, I was looking at some 16s made by Drennan and there was a marked difference in size between two different styles.

john step · Jun 6, 2017

binka said:
Purely as a money saving aside, does anyone re-use their spade ends?

That's what comes from living so close to the South Yorkshire border, it's like foot 'n mouth and some of their tight fistedness travels on the wind :wh :wh :wh

Its the same wind that blows across Lincolnshire from there. When I change a hook whilst fishing I have a small magnet in the tray beside me. Stops the little blighters from wandering off

chrissh · Jun 6, 2017

fishplate42 said:
I know it is not too hard to confuse me when it comes to the nitty-gritty of angling, but hook sizes are a mystery to me. The meat hooking thread has been talking about hooks being sized the same but being totally different.

I have had this problem with dropshotting hooks and I understood the number related to the distance between the point of the hook and the shaft (the gape?) but how does that work when you have a 'wide gap' size 16 or a normal size 16?

Can someone explain what the sizes actually relate to?

Thanks,
Ralph.

have a look at the link

Fishing Hooks Guide to Coarse Fishing Hooks

steve2 · Jun 6, 2017

Just look at it this way a normal size 16 is a size 16, a wide gape size 16 is a roughly an old size 8 . So if a fishery says hooks no bigger than a size 16 to be used than use a old size 8 and you will be OK. Confused, I am.

108831 · Jun 6, 2017

On the barbel section I recently posted about Fox SSBP's being discontinued so my search had begun,i've bought some MWGB Guru hooks which look similar in size and gauge,but a friend pm'd me with another pattern to use,now normally with pellet and boilies up to 15mm I use a size 10,the smallest in the Fox hooks,in this suggested pattern too,but God the size of them,i'd put them at least an 8,possibly a 7,the wire too is a thicker gauge,my mate says they are really good hook for barbel,but they should be,you could hang a cow carcass up on one...

Hooks are a very personal thing,there are few Kamasan's that i'd use,I like Drennan in several patterns,Super Specialists and the barbel version,Wide Gape spades for trotting for chub,Carbon Chub's(of which I have many boxes of 50),Eyed Carp Match(barbless)which are very,very strong for the gauge of wire.

S-Kippy · Jun 6, 2017

whitty said:
.....but God the size of them,i'd put them at least an 8,possibly a 7,the wire too is a thicker gauge,my mate says they are really good hook for barbel,but they should be,you could hang a cow carcass up on one...

Ha ha ha...I know exactly what you mean. I've got a few packets of similar things bought without seeing them and I also thought they wouldn't look out of place with a side of beef hanging on them. I only keep them in case I ever do a bit of skate fishing.

tigger · Jun 6, 2017

I always try to get strong hooks with as slim a gauge as is practical and up to now I haven't found anything better than the drennan super spades or kamasan animals for float fishing for chub, barbel, tench and even smaller species. In larger eyed hooks the drennan specialists are well thick enough for my fishing and I feel better using them than a lot of other hooks which are made from a larger gauge of wire.
At the end of the day it's whatever your happy to use, but for me I like to use a hook that makes as small a hole in the fishes mouths as I can.

Philip · Jun 6, 2017

john step said:
Best choose a pattern and size by sight.

I think thats about right. Its easy to slip into the mode of choosing a hook size simply by the number on the packet because thats what someone said you should use for a certain type of fishing. However as this thread has shown can be very misleading as the hook sizes can vary by manufacturer.

103841 · Jun 6, 2017

Philip said:
I think thats about right. Its easy to slip into the mode of choosing a hook size simply by the number on the packet because thats what someone said you should use for a certain type of fishing. However as this thread has shown can be very misleading as the hook sizes can vary by manufacturer.

I've learnt from experience not to order a particular hook online that I'm not familiar with

robtherake · Jun 6, 2017

The Kamasan B983 wide gape is a useful one for where hook size limitations apply. A size 10 is probably as big as some sixes, strong but still reasonably fine in the wire.

Kamasan B983 Wide Gape Specialist Hooks | Angling Direct

Hook sizes - I'm confused

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