Are you a tackle tart?

steve2 · Jul 20, 2017

One for the tackle tarts.

If your favourite tackle was being sold under cheaper banner would you still buy and use it, I would. Bit like own brand food, cheaper in many cases but just as good as branded.

mikench · Jul 20, 2017

So would I! I wait in the vain hope that Hardy coarse rods were sold again under the Liinaeffe banner at 10% of their price!

tigger · Jul 20, 2017

mikench said:
So would I! I wait in the vain hope that Hardy coarse rods were sold again under the Liinaeffe banner at 10% of their price!

Yeah, and they're Super high mogulus carbon n'all you know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVylYQXG9Yg

thecrow · Jul 20, 2017

mikench said:
So would I! I wait in the vain hope that Hardy coarse rods were sold again under the Liinaeffe banner at 10% of their price!

The Liinaeffe guarantee is probably better than Hardy's is now

To answer the OP I don't care what label is on the tackle I buy if its within my budget (which aint much) and does what I require of it so I don't think I am a tackle tart. If the stuff I use was even cheaper because of a different label I would still buy it.

binka · Jul 20, 2017

Yes I am, yes I would and yes I just wish it was.

thecrow said:
The Liinaeffe guarantee is probably better than Hardy's is now

I reckon you ought to rephrase that in case a reputable company like Liinaeffe take exception to being compared with a joke.

You mean Hardy's subsidised cost, parts replacement scheme that they laughingly termed a warranty?

sam vimes · Jul 20, 2017

Wishful thinking, but yes, if unbranded gear was demonstrably as good as premium marque gear, I'd be using it happily. Sadly, whilst there's little doubt that some brands carry a marque premium, there are generally good reasons as to why high cost items carry the price they do. Doesn't automatically follow that high price equals better though.

Tee-Cee · Jul 21, 2017

I thought the 'tackle tart' banner only applied to one fisherman of note on this website.......no names, no pack drill, though!

No, I REALLY couldn't say....

Okay, you can have three guesses!

Peter Jacobs · Jul 21, 2017

Am I a tackle tart?

Yes, unashamedly so . . . . .and I prefer the tag of "THE Tackle Tart" if you don't mind

Would I buy a similar item under a lesser known brand name . . . no, what would be the point?

The reason you buy Sage is because of the name which is representative of the quality of build, excellence of materials and after sales service (life time guarantee) or Abel for the superb livery and quality of materials and again the life time guarantee.

It is the name that conjures up the advertising image that the manufacturers are looking for, it is the same with most things, take a watch for example, a Partek Philip exact duplicate under the Casio brand will not give the image the buyer is seeking . . . . would it?

Note, some of the above may have been typed with tongue firmly in cheek . . . . some may not have . . .

Kevin Perkins · Jul 21, 2017

TickleTackle can justify their stratospherically high prices by the amount of R & D they undertake to ensure exclusivity and to keep the riff-raff from getting their grubby paws on their gear....

no-one in particular · Jul 21, 2017

I rarely read the tackle posts as I just buy on eye, instinct, feel, price mostly; I get it wrong sometimes but mostly I am happy with what I have. So I suppose I am not a tackle tart although I seem to have an extraordinary amount of it and to be fair; it should grace a skip some of it. However, some of it also came from a skip, you would be very surprised what people throw out. The problem is I am not fussy about most of what I fish with other than it fulfills the a fore mentioned criteria.
The difference between the name stuff and ordinary stuff is very subtle to be hardly noticeable in a lot of cases in my opinion but the difference in price is not subtle at all!
Is a bog standard carbon 30 quid match/float rod that much different from one costing 150 quid?
The only difference is I tend to buy Drennan hooks as I have come to trust them but that's probably the most important piece of tackle we buy in my opinion. On the odd occasion I have bought a name I have found the chances of it being good or bad no different to buying blind, probably down to me just not getting on with it though to be fair. So I stick to the eye, instinct, feel, price formula and ignore the name mostly.
But a name does resonate when I am buying old stuff, some of which I sell on or keep if I really like it. This mostly applies to split cane rods when a Hardy or Allcock for example will catch my attention especially if its in junk shop for £5 and other bits and bobs with a name on them.
I wonder what will sell for big money in 50 years time? maybe the same stuff from 50 years ago.

sam vimes · Jul 21, 2017

markg said:
Is a bog standard carbon 30 quid match/float rod that much different from one costing 150 quid?

Compare the very best £30 rod to the very worst £150 rod and you might be hard pressed to tell the difference. Otherwise, yes, there should quite a bit of difference. If you can't discern the differences, you probably shouldn't waste your money. However, that doesn't mean that every £150 rod is good and every £30 rod is bad. There are more decent rods at budget prices than ever before. A high price doesn't make the more expensive rod suitable for every application and every individual. I really don't like some very expensive rods that many think are the DBs. There's a good chance that they won't like the rods I prefer. I know full well that have handed over rods I love to mates who have been distinctly underwhelmed. I can be equally underwhelmed by rods that they adore.

In my experience, an awful lot of folks have real experience of a tiny number of rods. That won't stop them claiming that X or Y is the very best available. I own so many rods that mates extract the urine. However, despite owning lots, more than most will own in a lifetime, I can still only scratch the surface of what's available. There are still thousands of rods I can't claim any real knowledge of. Most folks that buy at the lower end of the market want to believe that their gear is as good as stuff costing top end prices. Most folks buying stuff at premium prices don't want to believe that they could have done better for less.

One fine day, I'd love to see a "tackle in", as opposed to a standard fish in. I'd love to convince someone like Skippy that not all 15' rods are heavy and unusable. I'd love to see realisation from the sceptics that top notch rods and reels can actually contribute to putting bigger fish on the bank more easily. I'd like to see reactions to some of the obscure and ignored hidden gems, old and new. Equally, I'd love to try other folks, regardless of the price point. Much as I'd like to sometimes, I can't buy, or store, everything I may wish to.

S-Kippy · Jul 21, 2017

sam vimes said:
.

One fine day, I'd love to see a "tackle in", as opposed to a standard fish in. I'd love to convince someone like Skippy that not all 15' rods are heavy and unusable. I'd love to see realisation from the sceptics that top notch rods and reels can actually contribute to putting bigger fish on the bank more easily. I'd like to see reactions to some of the obscure and ignored hidden gems, old and new. Equally, I'd love to try other folks, regardless of the price point. Much as I'd like to sometimes, I can't buy, or store, everything I may wish to.

What a great idea ! I'd take some convincing but I'm willing to be persuaded.

I have loads of rods but there are only a few that I know intimately.Naturally I will tend to back those against any others. I am not a shameless TT but I do like using nice gear and that sometimes comes at a premium price wise. That said I've some entry level stuff that punches well above its weight.

no-one in particular · Jul 22, 2017

sam vimes said:
Compare the very best £30 rod to the very worst £150 rod and you might be hard pressed to tell the difference. Otherwise, yes, there should quite a bit of difference. If you can't discern the differences, you probably shouldn't waste your money. However, that doesn't mean that every £150 rod is good and every £30 rod is bad. There are more decent rods at budget prices than ever before. A high price doesn't make the more expensive rod suitable for every application and every individual. I really don't like some very expensive rods that many think are the DBs. There's a good chance that they won't like the rods I prefer. I know full well that have handed over rods I love to mates who have been distinctly underwhelmed. I can be equally underwhelmed by rods that they adore.

In my experience, an awful lot of folks have real experience of a tiny number of rods. That won't stop them claiming that X or Y is the very best available. I own so many rods that mates extract the urine. However, despite owning lots, more than most will own in a lifetime, I can still only scratch the surface of what's available. There are still thousands of rods I can't claim any real knowledge of. Most folks that buy at the lower end of the market want to believe that their gear is as good as stuff costing top end prices. Most folks buying stuff at premium prices don't want to believe that they could have done better for less.

One fine day, I'd love to see a "tackle in", as opposed to a standard fish in. I'd love to convince someone like Skippy that not all 15' rods are heavy and unusable. I'd love to see realisation from the sceptics that top notch rods and reels can actually contribute to putting bigger fish on the bank more easily. I'd like to see reactions to some of the obscure and ignored hidden gems, old and new. Equally, I'd love to try other folks, regardless of the price point. Much as I'd like to sometimes, I can't buy, or store, everything I may wish to.

The problem I find is that all carbon rods look and feel the same to me; your probably right " If you can't discern the differences, you probably shouldn't waste your money." I put one together and pull the tip round and they all spring back in the same way. Apart from the fittings and colour I don't know what I am paying for. Usually I know, a £3 sandwich is going to be better than a £1 one, I can see and taste the difference straight away.
Last time I bought a new rod was a fly for coarse fishing. The tackle shop had rows and rows of them all looking, feeling and acting the same, but the prices ran from £20 to something like £100. £10 or £20 extra for better fittings etc I might swallow. I ended up buying Chinese from eBay for £16, (actually £6 as I had a £10 voucher so took the risk buying blind in this instance, nothing to lose), perfect except the reel seating may have been a bit cheap material but I am not bothered by that. The action, the varnishing, the eyes and whippings all no difference from a £100 rod! If there is a difference I would have trouble discerning it and I would really want to for £84; same as I would a £3 and a £1 sandwich!.
Its the same to me any like type rod in carbon, rows and rows of them in my local angling center, cant tell the difference except for the prices; like for like they all look and act the same apart from the peripherals.. You have tried many so you must know but I don't understand what the big differences are. I have fished with quite a few 12ft carbon match/float jobs and they have all been pretty much the same and 2 or 3 carbon carp type rods and pretty much the same as well. Is carbon just carbon?
There you go, maybe it just me; I just like spreading my money as far and as best I can and I think I achieve that.
I am sure we are bedazzled and bedeviled by a name and marketing sometimes. eye, feel, instinct and cost is all I really need.

peterjg · Jul 22, 2017

Am I a tackle tart? - Definately not! If you saw some of my old battered home made stuff you would laugh you head off! However; all my stuff works and works well, I am incredibly fussy about bait, hooks and terminal rigs - and that's what matters!

sam vimes · Jul 22, 2017

markg said:
The problem I find is that all carbon rods look and feel the same to me; your probably right " If you can't discern the differences, you probably shouldn't waste your money." I put one together and pull the tip round and they all spring back in the same way. Apart from the fittings and colour I don't know what I am paying for. Usually I know, a £3 sandwich is going to be better than a £1 one, I can see and taste the difference straight away.
Last time I bought a new rod was a fly for coarse fishing. The tackle shop had rows and rows of them all looking, feeling and acting the same, but the prices ran from £20 to something like £100. £10 or £20 extra for better fittings etc I might swallow. I ended up buying Chinese from eBay for £16, (actually £6 as I had a £10 voucher so took the risk buying blind in this instance, nothing to lose), perfect except the reel seating may have been a bit cheap material but I am not bothered by that. The action, the varnishing, the eyes and whippings all no difference from a £100 rod! If there is a difference I would have trouble discerning it and I would really want to for £84; same as I would a £3 and a £1 sandwich!.
Its the same to me any like type rod in carbon, rows and rows of them in my local angling center, cant tell the difference except for the prices; like for like they all look and act the same apart from the peripherals.. You have tried many so you must know but I don't understand what the big differences are. I have fished with quite a few 12ft carbon match/float jobs and they have all been pretty much the same and 2 or 3 carbon carp type rods and pretty much the same as well. Is carbon just carbon?
There you go, maybe it just me; I just like spreading my money as far and as best I can and I think I achieve that.
I am sure we are bedazzled and bedeviled by a name and marketing sometimes. eye, feel, instinct and cost is all I really need.

Mark,
your reply on the thread about expensive split cane nicknacks rather suggests that you just aren't very interested in carbon rods. That's absolutely fine, but if you can discern "soul" in inanimate objects yet not discern differences between different carbon rods, you either don't care, just aren't interested, or simply don't want to admit that there can be differences.

I can't quite see much point in trying to explain or convince you, as you have a distinctly closed mind on the topic. You don't actually want to believe that there can be differences in carbon rods. It's much the same as you trying to convince me that a ludicrously over prepared piece of grass has "soul". However, I have no problem in admitting that a good rod builder can change the way he uses that piece of grass to change the properties of the resulting blank. I'm not quite as sure that he can somehow glue or whip a soul into the blank though.

tigger · Jul 22, 2017

markg said:
The problem I find is that all carbon rods look and feel the same to me; your probably right " If you can't discern the differences, you probably shouldn't waste your money." I put one together and pull the tip round and they all spring back in the same way. Apart from the fittings and colour I don't know what I am paying for. Usually I know, a £3 sandwich is going to be better than a £1 one, I can see and taste the difference straight away.
Last time I bought a new rod was a fly for coarse fishing. The tackle shop had rows and rows of them all looking, feeling and acting the same, but the prices ran from £20 to something like £100. £10 or £20 extra for better fittings etc I might swallow. I ended up buying Chinese from eBay for £16, (actually £6 as I had a £10 voucher so took the risk buying blind in this instance, nothing to lose), perfect except the reel seating may have been a bit cheap material but I am not bothered by that. The action, the varnishing, the eyes and whippings all no difference from a £100 rod! If there is a difference I would have trouble discerning it and I would really want to for £84; same as I would a £3 and a £1 sandwich!.
Its the same to me any like type rod in carbon, rows and rows of them in my local angling center, cant tell the difference except for the prices; like for like they all look and act the same apart from the peripherals.. You have tried many so you must know but I don't understand what the big differences are. I have fished with quite a few 12ft carbon match/float jobs and they have all been pretty much the same and 2 or 3 carbon carp type rods and pretty much the same as well. Is carbon just carbon?
There you go, maybe it just me; I just like spreading my money as far and as best I can and I think I achieve that.
I am sure we are bedazzled and bedeviled by a name and marketing sometimes. eye, feel, instinct and cost is all I really need.

Many people have the same opinion of centrepin reels and just lump them all together not being able to tell the difference between a bearing reel or a bush and pin reel etc etc.
There are definitely differences between a top quality carbon rod and a cheapo one, some blatantly obvious ones are weight, then fixtures and fittings and finish, then there's the action which is a important feature. You can kid yourself that they're all the same but that's all your doing. You can often catch just as many fish with a cheapo rod as with a expensive one but there are times when a good quality one will make a world of difference to your fishing and will enable you to fish better and so you will catch more fish. As well as that the higher end rods usually feel better in your hand.

no-one in particular · Jul 22, 2017

Fair comments both of you above, a bit closed minded; could be and I have not bought or used carbon rods nowhere near the usage you have so appreciate the experience says differently. And laying it on a bit thick with the rod/soul thingy, well why not, only half serious on that, a bit of tongue in cheek perhaps but not entirely! This threads more about tackle tart syndrome and it sort of led into values - is there that much difference between one like carbon rod for another like carbon rod, is that difference enough to warrant the difference in price, from my own limited experience no, and am I a tackle tart? well, I have to be a bit excited by it first.
The other threads more about, why do people buy and fish with old stuff when the modern stuff is so much better, just trying to convey why they do, or in my case why I do, but I am not fanatical.
This debate often comes up, some will be a bit stubborn and stuck like me, some might see the other view - either way. There we are, the avenues we might be persuaded to go down or not with a bit of debate.
Reels a bit different, quality of engineering, different materials used, more of a range in the quality of materials. Not my area much, don't get on well with center pins except I like playing a fish with one, that I like but the trotting thing, £500 to save me paying out line, never too sure about that myself.. Last time I bought one it cost £10 and asked on here how many rotates the expensive ones got from a standing position. Compared them to my new £10 job, quite a bit behind the expensive jobs and I thought do I really need that extra sensitivity £250/£500 badly enough, but I can understand why some anglers fall in love with their reels and love that quality.

slaphead · Jul 22, 2017

I don't have lots of money to splash on fishing, so I couldn't justify buying high cost gear.

I find that Shakespeare tackle suits me just fine and does what I need it to do at a reasonable price, but I also have other brands too.

So no I am not.

sam vimes · Jul 22, 2017

markg said:
Fair comments both of you above, a bit closed minded; could be and I have not bought or used carbon rods nowhere near the usage you have so appreciate the experience says differently. And laying it on a bit thick with the rod/soul thingy, well why not, only half serious on that, a bit of tongue in cheek perhaps but not entirely! This threads more about value for money, is there that much difference between one like carbon rod for another like carbon rod, is that difference enough to warrant the difference in price, from my own limited experience no, and am I a tackle tart? well, I have to be a bit excited by it first.
The other threads more about, why do people buy and fish with old stuff when the modern stuff is so much better, just trying to convey why they do, or in my case why I do, but I am not fanatical.
This debate often comes up, some will be a bit stubborn and stuck like me, some might see the other view - either way. There we are, the avenues we might be persuaded to go down or not with a bit of debate.

Carbon rods are no different to cane rods. A good blank maker can manipulate the material to alter the action of a blank. The more skilful they are, the better the rod is likely to be. The material being used is largely irrelevant. Whilst you seem quite prepared to accept that not all cane rods are just the same, regardless of price point, you are unwilling to accept that carbon rods can be the same. The only way that could be true is if you are assuming that all carbon cloth is identical (it isn't) and that the way the blanks are rolled and mandrels used are identical (they aren't).

However, I've never said that new equals better than old. I don't believe that to be the case at all. Whilst 99% of my rods are carbon, many of my favourites are fifteen to thirty years old. There are plenty of those that love carbon rods that believe that many of the very best were made in the late eighties and nineties, especially when it comes to match rods.

no-one in particular · Jul 22, 2017

sam vimes said:
Carbon rods are no different to cane rods. A good blank maker can manipulate the material to alter the action of a blank. The more skilful they are, the better the rod is likely to be. The material being used is largely irrelevant. Whilst you seem quite prepared to accept that not all cane rods are just the same, regardless of price point, you are unwilling to accept that carbon rods can be the same. The only way that could be true is if you are assuming that all carbon cloth is identical (it isn't) and that the way the blanks are rolled and mandrels used are identical (they aren't).

However, I've never said that new equals better than old. I don't believe that to be the case at all. Whilst 99% of my rods are carbon, many of my favourites are fifteen to thirty years old. There are plenty of those that love carbon rods that believe that many of the very best were made in the late eighties and nineties, especially when it comes to match rods.

This is where I always come unstuck and we are back at the beginning. I appreciate these rods must have different skills applied and different quality of materials and machine quality, I just never notice it or feel it in the finished products. I probably just don't have that level of discernment in me to see it or detect it but I do take your word for it; it must be there. I have fished and felt the differences in cane, I can discern that more often, not to the extent that I think the price reflects those differences mind you, same as I feel about carbon rods. I wouldn't pay the money for a cane rod, I only get them when they are cheap in the sense what some would pay for the same rod.
At the end of the day we pay for want we want to pay for and its all it is really is. I am happy enough with my bog standard carbo rods and happy enough with my cane rods, they do their jobs, I just get more aesthetic pleasure from the canes than the carbos and I like that..

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