Do fish...

Swim upside down naturally i.e. not with any sort of swim bladder problem?

One I can think of that must do so is the Barbel otherwise I cant see how they would take a trotted bait.

I have never seen a fish swim upside down, if they are belly up they are usually dead.

thecrow said:

One I can think of that must do so is the Barbel otherwise I cant see how they would take a trotted bait.

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Dead right Graham, they so very often get hooked around the mouth when the bait rises above the river bed causing them to roll over to intercept a food item that is suddenly not visible.
A bit like us when we loose the soap in the bath, it's never where you think it is ! .

flightliner said:

Dead right Graham, they so very often get hooked around the mouth when the bait rises above the river bed causing them to roll over to intercept a food item that is suddenly not visible.
A bit like us when we loose the soap in the bath, it's never where you think it is ! .

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Is this a wind up? Barbel rolling upside down to take bait!

Seriously guys cmon, next time i'm out i'll take some photos of them taking bait just below the surface and there's no rolling about at all, they are quite adept at taking midwater and just open the mouth an suck it in.

Hi Chris,

Apparently there is at least one. I found THIS on Wikipedia.

Ralph.

theartist said:

Is this a wind up? Barbel rolling upside down to take bait!

Seriously guys cmon, next time i'm out i'll take some photos of them taking bait just below the surface and there's no rolling about at all, they are quite adept at taking midwater and just open the mouth an suck it in.

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Why do you think Barbel "flash"?

I look forward to seeing your photographs although imo they need to be video to actually see whats happening.

thecrow said:

Why do you think Barbel "flash"?

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Nymphing.....?

PS An afterthought - being cyprinids they need gulp air to move oxygen to and from the swim bladder, maybe this flashing also occurs at times when changing depth.

thecrow said:

Why do you think Barbel "flash"?

I look forward to seeing your photographs although imo they need to be video to actually see whats happening.

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Agreed Barbel do flash and they do jump, on the Severn I see about four or five clear the water each day but don't see this on the smaller rivers, maybe it's parasites or to have a scratch after all most fish do this.

Rest assured that they don't need to go upside down to feed, I caught many last week in two feet of clear water fishing a foot deep. Which is par for the course each season. It's hard to describe the motion and a film would help, hopefully the photo's will show although that may take a while as I may not get in the swims that show this best for a while. If anything they don't tend to tilt much at all to take a falling bait, they rise in the water taking a shallow bait on an angle of around 20 -30 degrees sometimes on the way down they will take another at a similar angle, both times they suck the bait in, they will turn to hit a falling bait but not tilt. Sometimes when on the bottom they will be picking up the static bait and turn as one drifts by once again a quick suck and it's in. Fishing shallow they can actually be quick to rip the float under leaving a strike at thin air and fishing too deep this time of year can lead to less fish and more foulhooking. Any fish that goes off on a bonkers angle that feels wrong is foul hooked and those ones usually come off unless hooked in the pectorals.

---------- Post added at 04:45 ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 ----------

Ok turns out I do have a photo from last season showing barbel coming up for food but I can't upload it like I used to be able to - help

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Ok finally got there and it shows a barbel coming up (the one in front is on the way down) whilst not the best photo in the world it does show the barbel clearly rising for the bait, the white mouths tend to flare up like a chub when they suck the bait in. Looking closely there's a third Barbel on a right angle to the other two diving underneath them.

theartist said:

Agreed Barbel do flash and they do jump, on the Severn I see about four or five clear the water each day but don't see this on the smaller rivers, maybe it's parasites or to have a scratch after all most fish do this.

Rest assured that they don't need to go upside down to feed, I caught many last week in two feet of clear water fishing a foot deep. Which is par for the course each season. It's hard to describe the motion and a film would help, hopefully the photo's will show although that may take a while as I may not get in the swims that show this best for a while. If anything they don't tend to tilt much at all to take a falling bait, they rise in the water taking a shallow bait on an angle of around 20 -30 degrees sometimes on the way down they will take another at a similar angle, both times they suck the bait in, they will turn to hit a falling bait but not tilt. Sometimes when on the bottom they will be picking up the static bait and turn as one drifts by once again a quick suck and it's in. Fishing shallow they can actually be quick to rip the float under leaving a strike at thin air and fishing too deep this time of year can lead to less fish and more foulhooking. Any fish that goes off on a bonkers angle that feels wrong is foul hooked and those ones usually come off unless hooked in the pectorals.

---------- Post added at 04:45 ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 ----------

Ok turns out I do have a photo from last season showing barbel coming up for food but I can't upload it like I used to be able to - help

---------- Post added at 05:20 ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 ----------

---------- Post added at 05:24 ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 ----------

Ok finally got there and it shows a barbel coming up (the one in front is on the way down) whilst not the best photo in the world it does show the barbel clearly rising for the bait, the white mouths tend to flare up like a chub when they suck the bait in. Looking closely there's a third Barbel on a right angle to the other two diving underneath them.

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I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one as the picture although showing a barbel coming towards the surface it doesn't show anything else.

During the maggot period on the royalty I saw a number of actions undertaken by them when feeding one of them was turning/ rolling over to take maggots both hand fed by an angler float fishing and ones that had been shaken from feeders by other barbel shaking the feeder.

Peter Stone wrote about seeing Thames Barel.turning upside down to take floating bread off the surface. I have seen sumilar. I am not saying its usual or common behaviour but they i think it does happen on occasion.

In anwser ti the OP question i recall a tv program that focused on a tiny fisf that had evolved to swim upside down and feed off the surface film. I cant reall too many details but a google would probably find it...


...just googled..this was it ..http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20161128-rare-fish-swims-upside-down

No wind up Artist, just the assumption that with such an underslung mouth and so many hookings outside and beyond it must be caused by barbel having to turn over somewhat and have a blind nanosecond causing a miss. Maybe it's a depth thing in shallow clear water in your case, mine is the more murkier tidal Trent thats often thirteen foot and more on a big tide--- who knows?.

I'm not remotely convinced that barbel have to turn upside down to take a trotted bait, even if it were trotted well off the bottom. However, I have seen barbel take surface baits whilst inverted. I've seen it happen twice on a commie and just the once on a river.

flightliner said:

No wind up Artist, just the assumption that with such an underslung mouth and so many hookings outside and beyond it must be caused by barbel having to turn over somewhat and have a blind nanosecond causing a miss. Maybe it's a depth thing in shallow clear water in your case, mine is the more murkier tidal Trent thats often thirteen foot and more on a big tide--- who knows?.

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I've watched them do this on quite a few rivers mate, The Severn and Teme and a couple of 'other' rivers I care not mention in haste spring to mind. These were in swims about about 6ft deep and whilst the water levels were low the clarity afforded a clear view of their activities.

I'd have full confidence that they are not turning upside down on coloured rivers or any river.

Crow - The Barbel was taking a pellet please take my word for it, as I caught it later amongst many others all of which were on the drop, all of which I could see take the bait.

fishplate42 said:

Hi Chris,

Apparently there is at least one. I found THIS on Wikipedia.

Ralph.

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Bang on Ralph :thumbs:

I'm quite sure some will have thought this a wind up, but honestly there is such a thing!
My fish feed supplier/consultant (PONDGURU) first brought it to my attention. The strangest thing I have ever seen!
Okay not a course fish but a fish nonetheless... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl5bhqqUkzo

theartist said:

Crow - The Barbel was taking a pellet please take my word for it, as I caught it later amongst many others all of which were on the drop, all of which I could see take the bait.

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I do believe that was what the fish in the photograph was doing as I don't think you are the type to be economical with the truth The photograph however cannot show what you saw, I would say that unless it was a video it would be almost impossible to show it in that way.

On the other hand other far more respected anglers than myself have recorded their experience of seeing this its not just me that has seen it happen, were they all wrong?

here is another type of fish swimming upside down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPVv7OgHfoU

Each to their own mate although and I have to be honest here I am astonished that this isn't a wind up and yes it was one of those check it's not April 1st moments for me. This is hard for me to word cos I like you and Flight and respect you guys but it's like your'e telling me the world is flat.

The only evidence we have got so far is a catfish and a sturgeon both known for weird swimming in ponds and tanks. We've all seen sturgeon/sterlets swimming up the side of tanks like they are blind. Aquariums are good though as they do show how fish suck in their food and don't rely on it dropping in their gobs, why would a barbel need to invert itself when its can suck it in like carp do.

If barbel take bait upside down do other bottom feeders like carp and tench? I've seen carp do it but only when buffeted by others in a feeding frenzy.

I'd love to know what percentage of Barbel I've caught on the float have taken the bait upside down, forgive me but I will see the funny side with this and I know you will stick to your guns as you always do. I'll agree to differ, I could post more pics up in time but given that's hard enough work I doubt if the video proof you require is forthcoming, maybe someone else could do that or better still show a shoal of barbel going whoops upside the head.

Would love it if i'm wrong as it would be spectacular

As I said before its not just me that has seen this happen and if Phillip is correct in that Peter Stone wrote about it that would be enough for me indeed Philip himself post that he has seen it.

Others on this thread have posted that they have seen barbel invert to take something from the surface.

This is not the first time this has been mentioned on here, within this link is a post from an ex member who posts that he has seen the same behaviour, are all those including Peter Stone wrong about what they have seen? The last post in the link is also very interesting in that its a completely different feeding method to both of our experiences, yet another barbel habit?

https://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/coarse-fishing/7386-barbel-top.html

There is a difference in what you describe seeing and what others have seen in that the fish you saw were taking a pellet a heavier bait than maggots that I saw them taking, the pellet would sink much faster than a maggot which may account for how the barbel were taking them whereas maggots can be swirled up towards the surface by faster water or boils from snags/weeds causing a different feeding behaviour altogether, not saying this is what happens its just a thought.

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Heres another link containing posts where the poster has seen barbel inverting

Barbel off the surface - Barbel Fishing World Forums

I've kept upside down catfish in a tropical tank and saw some in the local aquarium shop recently .

I've only ever caught one barbel off the surface and it sucked a floating caster in, it was upright when it took the caster just the same way the roach I was targeting do. Tench take things off the surface also and deff'o don't turn over, again they just suck it in like a carp in an upright position.
I've never seen or heard of barbel feeding upside down and without wanting to upset anyone I think it's b00llocks .

After saying that (I shouldn't have said it) I can't say they don't turn sideways or whatever sometimes, if someone has seen it happen then they must do it....simples in'it .

Oh, people do have their line coming off the top of their centrepins though.....weirdos LOL.

Even if they did once take a bait upside down, if someone says so, famous or not i'd still be confident 99.9% of barbel i have caught have been taking the bait as I described and proved in the photo. There's always the element of the unknown and that's 0.1% is what makes fishing such a draw to us.

I'm lucky enough to catch around 3-400 barbel a season so get a good enough picture of what I need to know, I expect I spend much more time watching them than catching them. Going upside down is not the norm as you indicated in your first post.