Hope it's not true.

Derek Gibson · Jul 24, 2017

I had a visit from an old friend yesterday, we spent most of the afternoon catching up,''I haven't seen him for the last twenty or so years, as he moved some distance away down sarf''.

As always the conversation revolved around the changes in angling from our early days. At some point in the conversation my friend made the observation, ''can you remember how we used to worry as to reasons why certain species were notorious for dropping baits. ''Certainly I replied'', well it doesn't apply anymore says he, since the introduction of the Bolt Rig, It's now applicable to almost any species.

Please guys, tell me it ain't so, is nothing safe from this damned invention.

Time for me to put on the tin hat and up the drawbridge.

mikench · Jul 24, 2017

Sorry Derek but are you saying all species are notorious now for dropping the bait or that they are unable to do so because of bolt rigs?

I can lose fish in all circumstances!

sam vimes · Jul 24, 2017

A bit like Mike, I'm not entirely certain as to what you are saying.
If it's a claim that bolt rigs mean that fish no longer drop baits, it's simply not true. The other minor fly in the ointment is that bolt rigs aren't exactly new. Before anyone coined the term, rigs that had all the same mechanics as a bolt rig existed. Any kind of paternoster is effectively a bolt rig, just not quite as extreme as some modern rigs and lead sizes are.

thecrow · Jul 24, 2017

I doubt that the mechanics of any rig work underwater as we imagine them to do and the bolt rig imo is no different in that unless the fish moves away with the bait/hook in its mouth it cannot work any fish that wants to can imo eject the bait before the lead comes in to play.

tigger · Jul 24, 2017

A short hooklength on a running rig with the line tight to the rod will be a bolt rig.

David Rogers 3 · Jul 24, 2017

You've only got to watch a few of the "Bream Time" videos on YouTube to see how often the underwater camera shows fish failing to be hooked on hair-rigged boilies!

peter crabtree · Jul 24, 2017

One could say a pellet waggler is a bolt rig maybe even a pike bung could be one?

Derek Gibson · Jul 24, 2017

Firstly let me say, I have never used a Bolt Rig so my opinion,(and that's all it is) is based on bits I've read, or brief references made by others.

Bach in the day when I did considerable Chub and Barbel fishing, and watching fish on the Yorkshire rivers. We believed as many did around the country that if the fish felt a check when mouthing a bait then that fish would eject the bait pronto. So all efforts were made to ensure that as little resistance as possible would be created, this was whilst ledgering of course.

I may be way off the target here, but my understanding is that most Bolt Rig set up's are set with a hook out arrangement and heavier lead which is ''not'' free running. Ergo, when a fish mouth's the bait and gets pricked by the hook and bolts off, the weight of the leger sets the hook, so the much heavier lead's used today are used to facilitate that point. I admit, but nonetheless that's my understanding, it all seems crude to me regardless of how refined they may have become.

And please bear in mind, as with all my posts and contributions they are as they would be ,were we sat in a pub discussing it over a pint.

thecrow · Jul 24, 2017

Derek Gibson said:
my understanding is that most Bolt Rig set up's are set with a hook out arrangement and heavier lead which is ''not'' free running. Ergo, when a fish mouth's the bait and gets pricked by the hook and bolts off, the weight of the leger sets the hook

That to me describes what should happen and maybe on some upressured waters still does but on waters where the fish are a bit cuter it doesn't always work that way. I have seen video somewhere of a fish (carp) that having been pricked by the hook doesn't bolt off but twists and turns until the hook is free, i will see if i can find the video.

mikench · Jul 24, 2017

As can be seen Derek from the comments to date, your legering with a running lead is still a form of bolt rig! I appreciate that you do not use a method/pellet/banjo/hybrid feeder which are obvious bolt rigs but even a GB feeder with a hook length attached either helicopter style or on a paternoster is a form of bolt rig.

Ps I hope i am right!

thecrow · Jul 24, 2017

As a young lad i fished with what could have been termed a bolt rig as the rig actually involved either a bolt or a nut tied onto the line as i couldn't afford leads, i caught lots of Perch on it using lobworms as bait fishing in local clay holes. One thing i never had if my memory is correctly was a deeply hooked Perch so maybe the pricking and bolting worked then?

---------- Post added at 14:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

This isn't the original video that i saw but it does show some carp "getting away with it" and although 1 does eventually get hooked some take the rig in and blow it back out with no problem at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGdqBs37vP4

Jim Crosskey 2 · Jul 24, 2017

Crow, I'd forgotten all about the original "bolt" rig, I used them myself as a kid.

Fish get away with all sorts when approaching a rig. If the ONLY thing that ever happened when you cast out a "bolt rig" was that you caught a fish, we'd probably all give it up and do something else.

However, the reality is that you can still get a blinding run on the bite on a bolt rig, only to pick the rod up and feel nothing.

Likewise, I have had numerous "takes" whilst fishing hair-rigged baits for barbel and chub where the rod top has shown a three foot twitch, only for my perfectly timed strike to meet with thin air.

The developments - and as Sam rightly points out, some of them have been around a long time - they improve our chances, but it is only that, an improvement. Just like Mike said at the start, I'm also more than capable of messing up a perfectly good take on a bolt rig - so improvement? Yes. Infallible? Absolutely not!

Nobby C (ACA) · Jul 24, 2017

A coffin lead on the line, stopped with a split shot is a bolt rig.

Philip · Jul 24, 2017

Derek Gibson said:
As always the conversation revolved around the changes in angling from our early days. At some point in the conversation my friend made the observation, ''can you remember how we used to worry as to reasons why certain species were notorious for dropping baits. ''Certainly I replied'', well it doesn't apply anymore says he, since the introduction of the Bolt Rig, It's now applicable to almost any species.

Please guys, tell me it ain't so, is nothing safe from this damned invention.

Time for me to put on the tin hat and up the drawbridge.

Good decision on the tin hat.

A crow quill float stret pegged is a bolt rig. A running link ledger fished to a quiver tip is a bolt rig. A freelined bait on a tightish line is a bolt rig. Remember Crabtree on the flooded river watching his rod top rattle ? …guess what, he was bolt rigging ! – SURPRISE !!!!

Consider this – Fred J Taylor said once that when they were fishing on the Ouse they knew sticking a split shot behind their running ledgers would mean they could turn twitchy Chub bites into full blown rod takes but they didn’t understand why. They (including **** Walker) were basically fishing bolt rigs but never realized it at the time. I think that applies today as well. Most anglers are fishing bolt rigs every time they go fishing without even realizing it, you included Derrick.

So taking that in account, now tell me – whats worse :

- Fishing a bolt rig and knowing your fishing it so you can maximize its effect

Or

- Sitting there in abject ignorance fishing a bolt rig whilst telling everyone else from a high horse they have it all wrong

Give me a break. A bolt rig does not catch a fish for you same as a crow quill float setup wont. In fact I would go as far as to say Bolt rigs can cost you fish if you just fish one blindly all the time.

Think about it. A bolt rig only works if a given set of circumstances come together …the hookpoint has to be free and proud, it cant be covered by anything, it cant be twisted in the wrong position, It then has to prick home in the fishes mouth, it then has to prick far enough in so that when the fish zooms off it does not just pull out and fly out of its mouth, the fish has to bolt else it can (and they do) sit there and suck and blow and twist until they eject the hook without you even knowing it has the bait in its mouth.

I could go on. The point is there is 1000 different reasons & permutations as to why a bolt rig wont get a hook up or work every time and in reality they are actually quite rubbish and inefficient. Every good Carp angler knows that the number of pick ups far exceeds the number of hook ups.

The fact is striking a hook home is a million times more efficient way to catch fish so when someone tries to say bolt rigs are taking the sporting aspect away I have to laugh as the same person is doubtless fishing a tiny float and striking at bites which will catch ALLOT more fish.

So after all that waffle I think the point here is that people who moan and complain about bolt rigs really should take a long hard look at their own fishing before they start to complain about what others are doing.

You can take the tin hat off now Derrick

Lord Paul of Sheffield · Jul 24, 2017

Philip said:
Good decision on the tin hat.

A crow quill float stret pegged is a bolt rig. A running link ledger fished to a quiver tip is a bolt rig. A freelined bait on a tightish line is a bolt rig. Remember Crabtree on the flooded river watching his rod top rattle ? …guess what, he was bolt rigging ! – SURPRISE !!!!

Consider this – Fred J Taylor said once that when they were fishing on the Ouse they knew sticking a split shot behind their running ledgers would mean they could turn twitchy Chub bites into full blown rod takes but they didn’t understand why. They (including **** Walker) were basically fishing bolt rigs but never realized it at the time. I think that applies today as well. Most anglers are fishing bolt rigs every time they go fishing without even realizing it, you included Derrick.

So taking that in account, now tell me – whats worse :

- Fishing a bolt rig and knowing your fishing it so you can maximize its effect

Or

- Sitting there in abject ignorance fishing a bolt rig whilst telling everyone else from a high horse they have it all wrong

Give me a break. A bolt rig does not catch a fish for you same as a crow quill float setup wont. In fact I would go as far as to say Bolt rigs can cost you fish if you just fish one blindly all the time.

Think about it. A bolt rig only works if a given set of circumstances come together …the hookpoint has to be free and proud, it cant be covered by anything, it cant be twisted in the wrong position, It then has to prick home in the fishes mouth, it then has to prick far enough in so that when the fish zooms off it does not just pull out and fly out of its mouth, the fish has to bolt else it can (and they do) sit there and suck and blow and twist until they eject the hook without you even knowing it has the bait in its mouth.

I could go on. The point is there is 1000 different reasons & permutations as to why a bolt rig wont get a hook up or work every time and in reality they are actually quite rubbish and inefficient. Every good Carp angler knows that the number of pick ups far exceeds the number of hook ups.

The fact is striking a hook home is a million times more efficient way to catch fish so when someone tries to say bolt rigs are taking the sporting aspect away I have to laugh as the same person is doubtless fishing a tiny float and striking at bites which will catch ALLOT more fish.

So after all that waffle I think the point here is that people who moan and complain about bolt rigs really should take a long hard look at their own fishing before they start to complain about what others are doing.

You can take the tin hat off now Derrick

Tin hat? Need full suit of armour after that

nottskev · Jul 24, 2017

Isn't it great how passions flare as anglers leap to defend their rigs, rod collections.......

It didn't occur to me it was a contentious issue, but I can see how it might be.

For me, a "bolt rig" suggests a set up that lends itself to self-hooking. By the fish, not the angler, though that can happen too. A short hooklength and a heavier than necessary weight would be characteristics I'd typically expect.....method feeders and pellet feeders would be prime examples in general fishing, although I can see how, for example, a heavy block-end feeder trapped in a short loop etc could be included. With such set-ups, you don't need to strike a bite, so much as notice that a fish has hooked itself, and pick up the rod and begin to play it.

With other methods, such as trad groundbait feeder, or legering with a lead on a link, you need to study the tip, read the bites and strike at the right moment to set the hook. Fail to do so, and the fish will not hook itself, as with the set ups above, and the same goes for some of the floatfishing methods mentioned earlier in the thread.

The point was brought clearly into focus for me when I first tried bream fishing with a pellet feeder not so long ago. I was intrigued that fish which had previously proved quite tricky on trad feeder, in terms of hitting their cautious and ambiguous bites, conveniently hooked themselves and held the tip round to let you know when to reel them in. Let's say, it took some of the hard work out of it, for better or for worse.

So I suppose I've got mixed feelings about self-hooking as opposed to bite-striking set ups. I don't plan to go around decrying the former - evidently efficient in some respects, and clearly a good idea if you're camping out for a few precious bites from big rare fish - but I've got a bit of sympathy with the point of view of the gentleman in the tin hat.

john step · Jul 24, 2017

I tend to believe that ledgering is in fact mostly bolt rigging to some degree.
My carping(and tench) is done on a sliding conventional lead nowadays. The alarm goes and the rod tip bends as I like to cast at an angle to the rod.

What makes it more efficient is the hair. I also use the hair when floatfishing at times.

binka · Jul 24, 2017

john step said:
What makes it more efficient is the hair. I also use the hair when floatfishing at times.

I would agree with that.

I see self-hooking as the fish engulfing a hair rigged bait, feeling the hook and when it realises something's not right attempting to blow the whole lot out and the hook up occurs when it is unable to exit the mouth cleanly, the hair giving the hook the extra freedom to rotate and take hold.

Any additional weight/line tension is just driving that hold home further and after the main event but the bolt occurs when the fish is ejecting the bait.

I'm not saying that's the case all of the time as I believe some fish will casually turn after picking up a bait and bolt at the weight but I've had it happen so many times when freelining hair rigged baits.

Does anyone 'bolt rig' without using hairs eg bait straight onto the hook?

Just thought... Method feeders, doh!

sam vimes · Jul 24, 2017

binka said:
Does anyone 'bolt rig' without using hairs eg bait straight onto the hook?

Check out a mag aligner set up. It's something I use occasionally (if I ever manage to bring myself to leger) and it can be rather effective. Just needs scaling appropriate to the target species.

john step · Jul 24, 2017

binka said:
I would agree with that.

Does anyone 'bolt rig' without using hairs eg bait straight onto the hook?

One water I fish has some very nice roach which are rather partial to 10 mm boilies.
When I try 10mm boilies for tench I get lightening bites from the roach. Very occasionally I hook one. ( On a hair)

If I SIDE hook a 10mm boilie I still get those bites but have never succeeded in hitting one even with the hook point well exposed.

The only way I have caught them on a 10mm boilie intentionally is to muck about experimenting by using a short hair on a tiny 18 or 20 hook, fishing well over depth and waiting until the float sails away.

Hope it's not true.

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