Pug-nosed fish

When Fred J Taylor wrote Angling in Earnest, he included a piece relating to some unusually shaped perch in the Upper Ouse and, for the want of a better term, we called them pug-nosed perch. Although I never caught one of them despite the large numbers of perch I caught in that part of the river, Fred did show me some pictures of them and he published one of the pictures in the mentioned book. I never really discussed the matter in depth with Fred and was happy to go along with his supposition that those particular perch were predominantly bottom feeders.



As can be seen, the head of the lower perch is very different to the head on the fish above it.

However, recently, while sorting through some of my old photo's from the 1970's I came across some pictures of some codling I had caught and one of them differed from the others just as Fred's perch did.


It was obvious I had caught a pug-nosed codling and it would be unlikely to be that shape because of its bottom feeding habits being as most cod will feed voraciously on the bottom or anywhere else there may be food. Anyway, I began to wonder about such fish and did a bit of a search around and discovered that there are "Pug-nosed" varieties of a large number of species of fish around the world and so I wondered if anyone here has caught any of any species from the waters they fish around the country or, indeed, anywhere else in the world?

I don't have the pictures anymore as they got lost on a dead laptop but I've caught a pug nosed common. Oddly it had fins that hadn't stopped growing, they where wildly out of proportion and particularly long.

Have caught a couple I can remember, one was a sea trout, and the other was a pike, curious looking fish, it didn’t seem to affect them,both were in good condition.
Remember seeing John Wilson catch a pike with a pug nose on one of his programs.

I've seen carp, barbel and pike with similar snub nosed features. I'd always assumed it was just a fairly prevalent genetic flaw in fish.

I've caught pug nosed pike before but have no idea as to why and would go along with Chris's genetic flaw theory. I believe the perch that Fred J referred to were in his belief predatory perch (not pugs) that were caught at all levels over gravel and 'bottom feeders' (some of them pugs) that would feed only over clay and were only caught on worm. I've had a few perch from the Ouse but they have all been 'normal'.

I've had a pug-nosed pike too, many years ago now from a reasonably local gravel pit and an upper double in otherwise fine condition.

I took it on a static deadbait if that has any relevance but I'm struggling to think how as I'm with the genetic flaw theory too.

Could it be, I wonder, caused by some sort of virus in the juvenile fish and similar to that which causes the kinking of backs on quite a few barbel?

I caught this Carp that was making a failed attempt at looking a bit like a Barbel from my local Barbel stream once



Keith

Chevin said:

When Fred J Taylor wrote Angling in Earnest, he included a piece relating to some unusually shaped perch in the Upper Ouse and, for the want of a better term, we called them pug-nosed perch. Although I never caught one of them despite the large numbers of perch I caught in that part of the river, Fred did show me some pictures of them and he published one of the pictures in the mentioned book. I never really discussed the matter in depth with Fred and was happy to go along with his supposition that those particular perch were predominantly bottom feeders.

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I cant recall catching a Pug nosed fish but I have seen photos of a number of different species that appeared to be Pug nosed. I think its just down to the way a fish looks, same as you occasionally catch a fish with a deformed tail and so on.

It would not surprise me if the pug nosed Perch they caught on the Ouse were descendants of the same 1 or 2 fish, the gene causing the Pug nose being passed down. Someone may correct me on this but I think it was actually down to Fred J Taylor that the Ouse in that area had a good head of Perch. I recall a tale about I think it was 80 Perch they caught in the nearby Canal and then they transferred the keep net full to the river. It was those fish that went on to grown into the specimens they caught in later years. Perhaps there was a Pug nosed Perch in that orginal keepnet full who was ultimatly responsible for the ones later.

Who knows for sure but its fun to speculate.

It seems that just about any species has pug-nosed varieties.

Pug-nosed fish images - Google Search

Philip said:

I cant recall catching a Pug nosed fish but I have seen photos of a number of different species that appeared to be Pug nosed. I think its just down to the way a fish looks, same as you occasionally catch a fish with a deformed tail and so on.

It would not surprise me if the pug nosed Perch they caught on the Ouse were descendants of the same 1 or 2 fish, the gene causing the Pug nose being passed down. Someone may correct me on this but I think it was actually down to Fred J Taylor that the Ouse in that area had a good head of Perch. I recall a tale about I think it was 80 Perch they caught in the nearby Canal and then they transferred the keep net full to the river. It was those fish that went on to grown into the specimens they caught in later years. Perhaps there was a Pug nosed Perch in that orginal keepnet full who was ultimatly responsible for the ones later.

Who knows for sure but its fun to speculate.

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Yes, speculation is always entertaining but I really doubt that any perch from the canal as such were responsible for the pug-nosed examples. The canal you mention was a short length that was dammed at each end on Little Hill Farm and being as perch are found right through the canal system in Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire it is certain that some of the perch in the system were trapped there. However, the Great Ouse has always had a good head of perch too so it is just as likely that the pug-nosed strain was there long before any perch were transferred from the canal to the river. I would think that the perch that were transferred from the canal to the river were done so because they were probably becoming stunted in the little bit of canal. To be honest, I never heard anything of that transfer from **** or the Taylor Brothers, but I readily accept that it may well have happened.

I get the feeling that these snub nosed fish aren't a strain of fish. I think it's more likely to be the piscine equivalent of a human being born with a cleft palate.

The widespread perch disease of the 1970s would have probably claimed these ‘pug’ perch of the Gt Ouse and nature left to a new start (i.e. the breeding cycle, if it contributed, from these pugs was stopped). I believe that Fred J stated that they could catch quite a few pugs in a feeding session. Chris’s explanation of the 'cleft palate' seems the most logical to me....

Chevin said:

Yes, speculation is always entertaining but I really doubt that any perch from the canal as such were responsible for the pug-nosed examples. The canal you mention was a short length that was dammed at each end on Little Hill Farm and being as perch are found right through the canal system in Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire it is certain that some of the perch in the system were trapped there. However, the Great Ouse has always had a good head of perch too so it is just as likely that the pug-nosed strain was there long before any perch were transferred from the canal to the river. I would think that the perch that were transferred from the canal to the river were done so because they were probably becoming stunted in the little bit of canal. To be honest, I never heard anything of that transfer from **** or the Taylor Brothers, but I readily accept that it may well have happened.

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Yes your probably right about the Pug nosed fish.

Just as an aside & maybe of general interest I managed to dig out the article were Fred J Taylor mentioned the Perch transfers from the canal to the river, at the very least it shows my memory is still pretty good !

Chevin said:

When Fred J Taylor wrote Angling in Earnest, he included a piece relating to some unusually shaped perch in the Upper Ouse and, for the want of a better term, we called them pug-nosed perch. Although I never caught one of them despite the large numbers of perch I caught in that part of the river, Fred did show me some pictures of them and he published one of the pictures in the mentioned book. I never really discussed the matter in depth with Fred and was happy to go along with his supposition that those particular perch were predominantly bottom feeders.

As can be seen, the head of the lower perch is very different to the head on the fish above it.

However, recently, while sorting through some of my old photo's from the 1970's I came across some pictures of some codling I had caught and one of them differed from the others just as Fred's perch did.

It was obvious I had caught a pug-nosed codling and it would be unlikely to be that shape because of its bottom feeding habits being as most cod will feed voraciously on the bottom or anywhere else there may be food. Anyway, I began to wonder about such fish and did a bit of a search around and discovered that there are "Pug-nosed" varieties of a large number of species of fish around the world and so I wondered if anyone here has caught any of any species from the waters they fish around the country or, indeed, anywhere else in the world?

Click to expand...

They look a lot like Balkhash perch to me?
I know there were some attempts at reviving the populations of perch in Windermere some years ago after they suffered a 98% lost due to an unknown disease outbreak. Extensive studies of perch lasted for over 70 years, its quite possible Balkhash (Perca schrenkii) was introduced during this time and have since spread throughout the rest of the UK.