That old lift method thoughts.

dicky123 · Apr 20, 2018

Just wondered what size shot you normally use for the lift method. I know you'll all say it depends on the distance you're fishing, wind and how big a float. But all that taken, would 2 swan shot be too much?

I ask as I've just been reading about it again, and that was the writers suggestion. That to me would be more of a bolt rig, but I'm just interested in other views.

In the past I've used just a single swan shot, but its a technique I mostly use close it, rather than at distance.

****y.

103841 · Apr 20, 2018

I've been using the lift method for tench this week. Using a delicate small antenna float I'm able to use the weight of the meat on the hook to register a lift.

terry m · Apr 20, 2018

For me the traditional lift method works well with an AAA shot being the ground anchor. 2 swan seems a tad coarse for my liking.

barbelboi · Apr 20, 2018

IMO the strength/size of tackle used will be in relation to the snags, or lack of them - much the same as for other methods. I find that one SSG is usually a good way to start.

To feed off the bottom the tench must hold it’s body in a head down position. By using it’s pectoral fins to keep position the turbulence will move the baited hook away from it’s mouth. The fish could sometimes attempt to follow the moving bait and cause the float to move sideways without dipping. The way to go is not to reduce the weight near the hook but increase it, to anchor the bait so the fish can catch it. This is the whole purpose of the lift method as I understand it.

Although FJT stated the shot should go 1" from the hook I often move things about and sometimes end up with the shot up to 6" from the hook, increase the amount of line before tightening up, (leaving a shallower angle) which can often help. The whole purpose of the lift method is to anchor the bait quickly to the deck so the fish can 'catch' it without it moving too much from the 'feeding' turbulence.

Mark Wintle · Apr 20, 2018

The method was adapted by FJT from the old Lea roach method known as the 'shot ledger' and described by Faddist, using a tiny float with a single shot 1.5" from the hook.

barbelboi · Apr 20, 2018

Yes Mark, Fred was not the originator of the lift method - he popularised it. He noticed that the Lee roach fishermen also caught tench using this method and popularised it in the mid 50’s.

ian g · Apr 20, 2018

I always thought the bouyancy of the lift supported the weight when the fish lifted the bait . It's a favourite method of mine I generally use a peacock waggler and a swan shot around 2 inches from the hook . Not sure 2 swan shots would act as a bolt rig if the float used was big enough to support the weight.

mickblue · Apr 21, 2018

I have never really got on with the lift method as traditionally described although I always set up my float to detect lift bites.

I find that with the traditional single large shot sized to just sink the float the float often keeps popping up a bit and I need to reset it. These are not bites and my assumption is that it is because the shot is balanced by the float and there is tension in the system after tightening up, that rather than anchoring the bait it moves at the smallest movements in the water. My other problem is that I find the short float often just suddenly lies flat when I get a bite and I find such bites harder to react to and it puts me on edge.

I much prefer to set my float up so that the bulk shot leaves at least 1" of float/antenna showing and the indicator shot sinks the rest of the float (ideally with a multi coloured antenna). You do need to plumb accurately so the indicator shot is on or just off the bottom. You still get lift bites and you also get a wealth of aditional information about what is happening under the surface. Dips, lifts, sideways movements can all be interpreted and over time you can learn to predict the species from the bite. With this method I believe that most lifts (even just a couple of mm) is a bite and should be struck.

As a side note I find Tench do not always give lift bites, maybe about 1 in 4. I find Bream far more likely to give a lift bite.

Redeemed · Apr 21, 2018

I tried it the other day. It was made difficult by the fact that the bottom of the pond is very irregular, i found this on Youtube though and fancy giving it a go, I especially like the idea of no small split shot to mess around with

dicky123 · Apr 21, 2018

I don't care who they (star anglers) are that is 'not the lift method', it's laying on. I know it's a fine line, but it's still there.

****y.

thecrow · Apr 21, 2018

****y123 said:
I don't care who they (star anglers) are that is 'not the lift method', it's laying on. I know it's a fine line, but it's still there.

****y.

Maybe the lift method has many variations that have been developed for different situations/species a bit like strett pegging has, there are lots of variations of that?

iain t · Apr 21, 2018

This was copied from an old John Wilson DVD. Hope it helps how to set it up

Redeemed · Apr 21, 2018

That's what those guys in the youtube video were doing but reeling in to cock the float. I couldn't see though how it would actually lift because the float stop near the hook length will be hard up against the SSG cluster.

if I'm wrong will someone explain it to me please, I'm new to this :wh

Keith M · Apr 22, 2018

Don’t confuse ‘Stret pegging’ on moving water or standard ‘laying on’ with the standard lift method for Tench, they are not the same things. Neither is using the lift method when fishing for other species using a waggler with shot off the bottom.

This is how I’ve used the standard lift method for Tench for at least 50 years or more and the way I was taught, and I’ve had some great tench catches using it over the years.

I set my float at around 6 to 8 inches overdepth using a single shot placed around 1.5 to 2.5 inches from the baited hook (Important note: my single shot is ‘only just’ heavy enough to be able to sink the short piece of quill and also be able to stop the line from drifting with any wind tow) and I normally fish it at a fairly close range (between 1 to 3 rod lengths out).

After I’ve cast out I place my rod onto two rests and I slowly wind my line in taut untill my float (a short length of peacock quill) cocks with just a small bit of the float tip showing above the surface.

The idea is: when the Tench tilts its head down and picks up the bait in its mouth and then starts to return to the upright position the shot is lifted (the weight of the shot is taken by both the Tench and the float) and you should strike as the float lifts up and starts to lie flat.
In practice the float often just disappears and moves off without the float lifting up but you do sometimes get the classic lift of the float.

Keith

Philip · Apr 22, 2018

Interesting thread.

I think the weight was supposed to be enough to pull a small float right down. As the fish righted itself from the head down position it lifted the shot and the float shoots up out of the water. So in terms of the original question basically the shot has to be big enough to pull a small float under.

However as a few have suggested there are many pros and cons and lots of things you can do to adapt it if you wish.
My take on the method is that the classic text book lift method can be too delicate for its own good.

For that reason something I have done quite allot of which works on a similar principle is to fish a sliding float over depth. Bunch the shot up a few inches from the hook and set the stop knot a couple of feet deeper than the water. Cast in and then gently tighten your line inch by inch. The float will gently pull down till just the tip is showing. You now have a very delicately set trap. Any fish taking the bait and moving the shot will either sink the float if it pulls away from you or more commonly dislodge the shot and you will see the float shoots up out of the water. Strike either indication.

Its really effective and has two advantages over the classic lift method. First its less delicate so you wont be troubled (quite) so much by false indications and second you don’t need to plumb the depth exactly each time. You just need to approximately set the float a bit deeper so its much easier and more practical to use.

dicky123 · Apr 22, 2018

Keith. Bang on mate.
Iain that article refers to 'stret-pegging' on a river for carp, you can see the bow in the line caused by the current. The more current the bigger the bow you need, typical would be a 3' depth needing 6' between the weights and the float it's not laying on. It's also a shallow water method mostly.
I'm all for people modifying methods to make it work for them, but they should say it's a modified method. The Martin Bowler clip is simply laying on, the fish will not lift 3 swan shot as such. They will move the shot and bolt, or drop the bait. Also in the clip his weight is allowed to move on the line, with the proper lift the weight is fixed on the line as Keith mentioned hence the relative light weight of a single swan shot) by lifting the weigh the float has nothing to stop it lifting, hence the name.

barbelboi · Apr 22, 2018

Good post Keith - that's just about as I see/use it.....

108831 · Apr 22, 2018

I'm thinking of using an olivette instead of shot,the sort that you put silicon on each end,thus no shot damage,just using a float rubber to hold the float,my biggest problem is the bloody carp,they seem to eat anything when your tenching in the margins,fish of mid-doubles up make mincemeat of 6lb bs smashing through Norfolk reeds and fishing heavier makes the tench much harder to tempt.

nottskev · Apr 22, 2018

whitty said:
I'm thinking of using an olivette instead of shot,the sort that you put silicon on each end,thus no shot damage,just using a float rubber to hold the float,my biggest problem is the bloody carp,they seem to eat anything when your tenching in the margins,fish of mid-doubles up make mincemeat of 6lb bs smashing through Norfolk reeds and fishing heavier makes the tench much harder to tempt.

Have you been off the site for a bit? There'll be someone along to tell you what's wrong with your post shortly

mikench · Apr 22, 2018

Good to see you posting Alan and I hope all is well with you!

I have some olivettes but have yet to try them for still water fishing! I plan to fish for tench next week on the lift method/laying off/stret pegging and have made a few short lengths of line with a couple of AAA shot on and attached to a small swivel a la Martin Bowler!

Good luck!

That old lift method thoughts.

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