Tired of being abused by know-it-alls

tomino2112 · May 9, 2018

So I have had to limit my fishing in UK because of the constant abuse I have to endure due to my appearance (European) but couple of weeks ago I have decided to have a go at a bit of canal fishing.

About 10 minutes in I was connected to a nice Zander (unfortunately). Once I netted him I proceeded to dispatch the fish and bag it, which also meant I had to start packing up since I didnt have any cool box or such.

What I didn't expect was group of three half-drunk UKs one of which apparently like-to-be angler who literally sprinted towards me cans of beers in their hands shouting all kind of abuse about me being poacher and what not (I am being polite here). I had to continue with this confrontation for about 45 minutes.

Why does it have to be like this here? What does motivate people to abuse someone else just for fun without having proper grounds for their actions? I can be only thankful that people think twice about getting physical with me, but I have many friends who would probably end up beaten or worse...

Goes without saying, I will think twice before going fishing again...

fishplate42 · May 9, 2018

Disgraceful. That's a real shame. I am sorry and ashamed that some of my countrymen seem to think that anyone of "European" appearance are fair game. I don't really know what to say other than please don't let a few idiots deprive you of your hobby. If you would like to team up with me for a trip, please let me know as we live but a few miles apart.

Ralph.

S-Kippy · May 9, 2018

Although the close season does not apply to canals do the rules also permit you to keep fish ?

tomino2112 · May 9, 2018

S-Kippy said:
Although the close season does not apply to canals do the rules also permit you to keep fish ?

Zander is a non-native species to canals and it is actually an offence to return them. That is why I say I "unfortunately" caught Zander, because in effect it terminated my session I was looking forward for a while..

103841 · May 9, 2018

I'm at a loss to understand why you "had to continue" a confrontation lasting 45 minutes! That's a very long time, I would have either walked away or called the police if I was being threatened.

Excuse the pun, and I am something of a cynic, you are opening a very large can of worms discussing the catching of fish for dispatch especially to my knowledge a species and type of venue where in the UK that isn't the norm. Seems to me you're looking for controversy.

tomino2112 · May 9, 2018

s63 said:
I'm at a loss to understand why you "had to continue" a confrontation lasting 45 minutes! That's a very long time, I would have either walked away or called the police if I was being threatened.

Excuse the pun, and I am something of a cynic, you are opening a very large can of worms discussing the catching of fish for dispatch especially to my knowledge a species and type of venue where in the UK that isn't the norm. Seems to me you're looking for controversy.

Just sharing my experience. I was hesitant to post this here exactly for the reasons you said but then I feel raising awareness is more important than being worried about couple of online comments. I think if people are aware of struggles I (and many others) have to go through maybe, just maybe situation could improve at some point.

Re the 45 minutes argument, that is just my nature, if I know I am right I will not back down, especially not for the kind of individuals we are talking here.

Re the rules for species on different venues, the ultimate argument is "Get to know UK rules if you want to fish here" and that is exactly what I did. Before I go to fish venue I make sure I am familiar with all the rules and I expect everyone to do the same, especially if they have the need to come up to someone and confront them.

tomino2112 · May 9, 2018

fishplate42 said:
Disgraceful. That's a real shame. I am sorry and ashamed that some of my countrymen seem to think that anyone of "European" appearance are fair game. I don't really know what to say other than please don't let a few idiots deprive you of your hobby. If you would like to team up with me for a trip, please let me know as we live but a few miles apart.

Ralph.

Thank you Ralph, actually I will be out of the country for most of the summer - finally enjoying some fishing - so maybe we can get out for a autumn/winter session at some point

john step · May 9, 2018

No excuse for abuse.
Not sure about zander having to be killed as non native. Not heard of that one before. Plenty of UK zander anglers, so maybe one can enlighten me.

Why is it that without speaking people know you are a European angler? What does it matter?

I wonder if the unusual action of killing a fish deliberately would spark an argument anywhere. Not an excuse for abuse although its definitively not the usual practise and would cause resentment heightened by alcohol perhaps.

You certainly seem to court controversy if memory serves correctly from other posts. You have mentioned more than once about being able to look after yourself and others may come off worse.

Fortunately I have never had to justify where or why I come from. Perhaps I just blend in.

fishplate42 · May 9, 2018

tomino2112 said:
Thank you Ralph, actually I will be out of the country for most of the summer - finally enjoying some fishing - so maybe we can get out for a autumn/winter session at some point

That would be good. Let me know when you are back in the country.

Ralph.

103841 · May 9, 2018

tomino2112 said:
Just sharing my experience. I was hesitant to post this here exactly for the reasons you said but then I feel raising awareness is more important than being worried about couple of online comments. I think if people are aware of struggles I (and many others) have to go through maybe, just maybe situation could improve at some point.

Re the 45 minutes argument, that is just my nature, if I know I am right I will not back down, especially not for the kind of individuals we are talking here.

Re the rules for species on different venues, the ultimate argument is "Get to know UK rules if you want to fish here" and that is exactly what I did. Before I go to fish venue I make sure I am familiar with all the rules and I expect everyone to do the same, especially if they have the need to come up to someone and confront them.

I don't know why you want to raise awareness on this fishing forum. I was very careful with my words when I said it's not the "norm", that's entirely different to what is legal or not. So, it's the three half UK drunks (they're also European, for now anyway) that need educating on the UK law but we all know that ain't going to happen. So you will continue to be questioned, confronted and who knows maybe abused again, either pack up fishing or avoid all this unpleasantness by fishing in places with legal fish and dare I say venues that don't attract UK drunks.

103841 · May 9, 2018

fishplate42 said:
That would be good. Let me know when you are back in the country.

Ralph.

Ralph your heart is in the right place, your sentiments are admireable and I would like that heart to remain in that place, nice and healthy. With your recent post about high blood pressure the last thing you need is any kind of confrontation. Tomino might be a nice chap but if he continues to fish in a similar fashion, then I fear that confrontation may not be too far away.

john step · May 9, 2018

s63 said:
I don't know why you want to raise awareness on this fishing forum. I was very careful with my words when I said it's not the "norm", that's entirely different to what is legal or not. So, it's the three half UK drunks (they're also European, for now anyway) that need educating on the UK law but we all know that ain't going to happen. So you will continue to be questioned, confronted and who knows maybe abused again, either pack up fishing or avoid all this unpleasantness by fishing in places with legal fish and dare I say venues that don't attract UK drunks.

I was trying to diplomatically infer this theme with my reply. My main point being my last sentence about blending. If I was continually getting in to arguments or getting fed up with abuse I would have an inward look perhaps. Also look for a decent venue.

sam vimes · May 9, 2018

Right or wrong doesn't really matter, neither does your appearance. The bottom line is that the majority of UK coarse anglers have got it into their heads that it is illegal to kill fish. Even if they know it's not illegal, they find it unacceptable to kill fish. I'd expect no different response if an obviously Anglo-Saxon killed and bagged a zander in full view. If you want proof, just look at the furore that taking a few grayling (legally) caused for Des Taylor. The were queuing up to take pot shots at him on Facebook. Try showing a picture of (farmed) carp on a UK fishmonger's slab on Facebook or a carp forum, watch the indignant disgust roll in.

There are other situations that can see equally poor responses, despite no laws being broken. Local byelaws in my area mean that it's perfectly legal for me to be on the rivers in the coarse closed season. I can legally fish worms for trout using what are normally considered to be coarse fishing techniques. There are plenty of people around that are totally ignorant of these byelaws and are quite happy to call the EA/Police or simply give you a load of abuse if they see someone fishing in this way.

Try to avoid believing that it's all because of you obviously being non-English. That's never going to help your cause once you open your mouth and it becomes obvious, but it's not the reason you copped this flack.

john r stockburn · May 9, 2018

tomino2112 said:
Zander is a non-native species to canals and it is actually an offence to return them. That is why I say I "unfortunately" caught Zander, because in effect it terminated my session I was looking forward for a while..

quite right on both accounts , non native and an offence to release it back into the waterway punishable by a fine of up to £5000.
kill the lot of them

Molehill · May 9, 2018

Well I hope you eventually enjoyed eating the Zander, they are very good to eat - I suggest you are a little more cunning and less obvious when you next knock one on the head

thecrow · May 9, 2018

This could have happened to any angler that was seen killing a fish, maybe their opinions were formed by their previous experiences or maybe they were just yobs that had been drinking, who knows?

There are yobs from ALL nationalities I have been on the receiving end from some Eastern Europeans didn't make me think that they are all like that, didn't stand arguing with them and it certainly didn't stop me fishing there again.

Rules or not I would have just slipped the fish back, I would not have knocked it on the head in full view of others as it is certain to cause a row with some anglers half drunk or not.

How did you know they were half drunk I don't understand what that means its like saying half dead, one is either drunk or not.

markcw · May 9, 2018

john r stockburn said:
quite right on both accounts , non native and an offence to release it back into the waterway punishable by a fine of up to £5000.
kill the lot of them

That may be the case John, but how many get knocked on the head that are caught in the Pike Championship matches ?
Was it "unfortunate" he caught the Zander and why couldn't he carry on fishing ? its not as if it was put and take trout fishery. Or was it "unfortunate" he got caught knocking it on the head and bagging it, It still does not condone any abuse and from the sound of it the lads who confronted him would have done so whatever nationality he is. It was only when he spoke they realized he was not English.
he said he had no cool box and had to bag it, so the zander was for the pot anyway, that must be why he packed up, If he did have a
cool box how many "unfortunate" zander catches would have joined their mate in it ?

thecrow · May 9, 2018

I had a look at the bye laws for the Severn Trent area which is where I fish to see what fish were legally allowed to be taken. This is what I found.

On rivers, you may take no more than -

• one pike of less than 65 cm per day;

• two grayling of between 30 and 38 cm per day;

• a combined total of fifteen of the following species: barbel, chub, common bream, common carp, crucian carp, dace, perch, pike, roach, rudd, silver bream, smelt or tench (including any hybrids of these species) of less than 20cm per day.

All lengths are measured from the tip of the snout to the fork of the tail.
These restrictions also apply on all the waters in the Severn and Trent catchments which are subject to the coarse fish close season (see above).

There are no restrictions on the number of other coarse fish you may take.

On stillwaters and canals, you may only take freshwater fish with the written permission of the fishery owner or occupier. Canals are defined as those canals where the coarse fish close season has been removed.

I can find no mention of Zander for this area or anything on "alien species" (I don't consider them alien having been here for so long)

I also find the last paragraph very interesting.

rayner · May 9, 2018

Zander as an evasive species should not be returned to the water, I'm amazed some anglers are unaware of this.
It seems apparent that anyone knocking a fish over the head is fair game in the UK, fish here are treated as pets by some.

I've never knowingly killed a fish apart from the odd trout when I was younger, the fact remains that fish can be taken legally from some UK waters.
See bylaws on the EA web site.

This is the fist time I've come across Tomino but he is correct in what he says regarding Zander.

thecrow · May 9, 2018

rayner said:
but he is correct in what he says regarding Zander

I cant find anything to do with Zander at all on the ST byelaws, its as if they don't exist.

Tired of being abused by know-it-alls

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