Those distinguished fish.

Derek Gibson

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They can be of any species, and are often very ''attractive'', novel if you will. I have slides and photo's of some very odd colourations and markings. Pike with burnished gold gill plates etc. This is distinct from birth defects such as the rare ''pug nosed'' varieties. And often these fish are evidently prospering, and a good majority attaining good sizes.

I am well aware that water clarity can play a role in this in some cases.

Have you encountered such examples?
 

mikench

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I haven't Derek save for an oddly coloured carp which I was told was a ghost carp! Clearly large carp are regarded as distinguished by some and are even given names. The cover of this week's AT features a common carp of 65lb 2oz! To some distinguished , to me bloated, ugly and but for a life of relative weightlessness in water, morbidly obese!

I caught my first gudgeon last year and was enchanted by their brilliant coloration and tenacity! Very distinguished indeed!
 

Keith M

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I had a Barbel on the river Lea once that had 3 barbules, and I caught a Bream once that had its rear half a completely different shade of brown to its front half.

I’ve also seen pictures of a Golden barbel that someone had caught from the river Dane once.

Ive noticed that some of the old wizened Carp and Tench in our lakes and rivers tend to have a much richer and darker colouring than the newer and faster growing strains which often tend to be a much lighter colouring.

One of the most distinctive and ugliest Carp that I’ve caught however was the one pictured below, which looked like it was trying to impersonate a Barbel on my local Barbel stream, with its underslung mouth and it’s strange looking dorsal fin.



Keith
 
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thecrow

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Not all large carp are bloated, I recall a fish caught by my son that was iirc around 30lbs, it was in perfect condition not bloated was a mahogany colour fought like a demon, it was the best looking mirror I have ever seen. This is the fish



I also remember when I finished fishing the Trent and started fishing a much smaller river, the Barbel were to my mind better looking being sleek and streamlined with their weight carried in their breadth not their belly.
 

theartist

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I am well aware that water clarity can play a role in this in some cases.
You can't beat a bit of clear water for the most vivid of colours. Although two waters within a stones throw, even the same catchment can have washed out looking colours in one to the most wonderful hues in the other. Then you get the odd fish in a shoal that's either the 'dark one' or the 'light coloured one', compared to the rest, barbel and chub seem to have this distinctive fish quite often within their shoals. I personally love the big roach that have that bright orange chin spot

The colours can also change withing the same water with a period of clear or coloured water - I've heard that a goldfish kept in the dark will turn white within two weeks, not sure if that's true but it would make sense
 

theartist

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This is one of those roach, the orange spot on this one actually extended to the top lip too and was so vivid, photo doesn't do it justice as it was a dull day

orange roach.jpg
 

Derek Gibson

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This is not new, older members will no doubt recall the debates that persisted over several seasons regarding the ''two tone'' Bream saga.
Many theories were put forward to account for this phenomenon. But since it occurred on a variety of waters I don't recall the curiosity being resolved.
Unless you know different?
 

theartist

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Isn't there two tone colourations in most animal species including humans? Pigments devoloping differently on the skin or hair in different areas, surely science has found the answer?
 

john step

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I once caught a pike on the Ancholme that had a distinctly yellow hue to it.

Keith, I wonder if your carp had a bit of fantail goldfish in its ancestry?
 

Keith M

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I used to fish a Barnet AC water next to Potters Bar called Shepherds Way where the Perch hardly had any colour or stripes at all they were so pale, but the water didn’t look any different in colour to other lakes and ponds in the area which were all quite muddy looking.

I kept a goldfish in a large water butt once, the water was thick with green algae and the goldfish turned a very vivid orange and remained very lively and healthy, it was a lot more vivid orange than it was when it was kept it in a clear pond in my garden previously.

Keith
 
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mikench

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The ghost carp I caught ! It looked odd at the time and still does!

View attachment 5620

Graham i know that not all large carp are bloated and I didn't say or imply that! Most of the carp I have caught of any size or am likely to , have been fine specimens of their type( common or mirror) and my biggest fish to date of 24lb was perfectly shaped and put up one hell of a fight! I have not seen a fish over 40 which was , shall we say , in shape! Bloated and morbidly obese are accurate descriptions of these fish and not distinguished imho!
 

thecrow

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I know you didn't say that I was merely pointing out that large carp don't have to be bloated.

This was over 40lb



As was this one




A lot depends on the strain of carp as to whether they become bloated or not, I do not like to see those that look as if they have been inflated with a bicycle pump :)
 

peterjg

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Over about 6 decades of fishing I have caught some odd looking fish:

Several roach with golden patches.
A 30 lb 10oz mirror carp the same shape as a barbel.
Two tone carp and bream - some think that this is due to stress?
A barbel from the Lea which had an extra barbule.
Snub nosed pike.

My wife once caught a weird carp which was lime green and its fins were huge like sails!
 
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sam vimes

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When it comes to large carp appearing bloated, it's often a question of genetics rather than being overfed and obese. In the never ending drive to achieve greater weights, fish breeders often chase "ideals" that don't necessarily coincide wth those of a fair number of anglers. If carp sizes (and body shapes) had been left entirely to nature, I suspect that carp would rarely exceed 40lb in the UK. It's possible that the figure might be much less.

I suspect that an awful lot of the more outlandishly shaped carp are nothing more that genetic deformities. Snub noses, weird shaped heads, oddly positioned and sized mouths are all fairly commonly seen, especially in commercial venues.

When it comes to colouration of fish, genetics also play a part, but the most significant factors seem to be water quality, water clarity and diet. The most beautifully coloured fish I've ever encountered have invariably come from clear water venues.

The strangest variations in fish colouration I've seen are on waters that vary in clarity. The Dales rivers can run like tap water at times, but they often run the colour of stewed tea for long periods. The fish often seem to vary in how vivid they are depending on the water colour.

The most obvious genetic variations I've encountered have been in barbel. In some of the rivers I frequent, the are long, lean, and quite pale barbel alongside shorter, stockier, and more golden/brassy fish. The speculation on this is that the long, lean, fish might be a native strain and the shorter, stockier, fish be those that have origins in the EA stock fish which would have links to Trent fish.
 
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markcw

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I once caught a pike on the Ancholme that had a distinctly yellow hue to it.

Keith, I wonder if your carp had a bit of fantail goldfish in its ancestry?

John , there are pike in a water in Lymm that are yellow, this is I presume that the water has a sandstone bottom and sandstone sides, The yellow colouration does not seem to affect any other fish in there, The water in question has a flow coming into it, then a decent slow glide and part still ( this is where the pike reside) before going over a small outcrop into a stream, The water source starts at Lymm Dam which has a lot of sandstone around it, then into a stream to the lower dam in the village then into a stream to the pool where the pike are.
 
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