Stick v waggled float

103841 · Nov 3, 2018

Just been reading something on another forum that I found of interest.

When trotting using a waggler fixed bottom only as opposed to a stick float fixed top and bottom which can spook fish with the noise created when striking.

I’ve only recently started trotting on a river and have never considered using anything other than a stick float, I’m intrigued about this theory of noise being created.

Anyone have experience of this?

O.C.F.Disorder · Nov 3, 2018

Wagglers can help keep control in windy conditions. Im not sure about the noise of the stick float scaring fish.. IMO the fish is going to be making more noise than the float..

chrissh · Nov 4, 2018

I’m not convinced that a waggler is any better trotting being the line is sunk under the float where with a stick the line come of the top of the float

If you think of it any style of float fishing on a long cast or trot will make some sort of noise when lifting the line though the water or striking into a bite

Most of my river fishing is trotting for grayling, dace, roach & chub I have never had a stick float spook fish

Theirs different types of floats for running water, there’s the traditional stick or wire stem stick

Depending on the river and the flow I will use a sticks, Loafer, Avon crystal or wire stem.

The shooting paten play a big part in the way the float flows though the water 9 time out of 10 I will set up the shoot as the shirt button style then if I need to change to a general or bulk shoot style

Alan Tyler · Nov 4, 2018

I hate the "Blerp" or "Burble" of a stick/Avon being struck sideways, especially in shallow water, and use little two-ringed sliders to avoid it. Even 3" of slide will speed up and quieten the strike.

peter crabtree · Nov 4, 2018

If the sound of a stickfloat 'blerping' is said to spook fish, what about a feeder or bomb hitting the water?
Nonsense in my opinion...

Alan Tyler · Nov 4, 2018

Probably; I suspect that I mind a lot more than the fish do.
There's just the suspicion that the one fish in a hundred that is spooked by it might be the one that I really, really want to catch, and that keeps me pottering about with baby sliders.

Edit: And I'm pretty sure the faster strike helps, too, ( especially as my gnarled and ancient peepers and striking-arm aren't what they used to be, and weren't that much cop when they were), and that isn't just my head messing with me.

Richox12 · Nov 4, 2018

Alan Tyler said:
I hate the "Blerp" or "Burble" of a stick/Avon being struck sideways, especially in shallow water,

Exactly, Striking upstream/sideways when fishing top & bottom in shallow water makes a big noise and a big disturbance. Do that every 2 minutes over a few hours and you might not have any fish left to catch. If you can strike UPWARDS then fine - if there are no overhanging branches etc and the float doesn't fly out causing a big tangle. However, a short waggler is MUCH cleaner striking (and doesn't fly up making a mess) and virtually no noise.

nottskev · Nov 4, 2018

Stick and waggler, or top and bottom and bottom only, floats are both long-established staples of river fishing. There are all kinds of reasons why one or the other type is the best in given circumstances, that include how far out you're trying to fish, what the wind is doing, if you're slowing a float down or letting it run etc.

Although the idea has been rubbished by some, I do think there are occasions when a waggler gives you a less splashy or potentially less intrusive kind of strike then a stick, such as on small shallow streams, or shallow swims in bigger rivers, to name just two. Wagglers pull out of/through the water differently on the strike. A noisy strike means that the hook is not being moved as efficiently as it could be, and some of the energy is being wasted on hitting the float. That's one reason why, for instance, as the OP suggested, a slider is sometimes preferred, even when the depth is not too great.

As to the idea that people never cop for a noisy strike on the stick - I've fished near people and heard every bite they strike at! Makes you wince.

Alan Tyler · Nov 4, 2018

Just to clarify, the sliders I use are two-ringed, so they can be held back as one would a stick-float, which I find a lot simpler than trying to slow a waggler.

Neil Maidment · Nov 5, 2018

Both definitely have their place and I often alternate between the two when I'm trotting for winter chub on the Stour and Avon.

Not sure about the noise/disturbance factor when fishing "top and bottom". The bottom only waggler collapses on the strike with less surface disturbance but initially travels under and through the water sometimes with a large bow of line "whipping" through the surface.

The top and bottom balsa is my favourite with various shotting patterns, typically including a bulk. But even with the chub responding well they often back off. One thought, not mine initially, is that they become "shot shy" with a bulk(s) continually going through the hot area. Switching to a waggler, often a short fat pellet waggler or, on shallower swims, a Trent Trotter, with virtually all the required shot bunched around the float and just a single No:1 or No:4 down will work wonders.

barbelboi · Nov 5, 2018

I'm also of the opinion that both have their places but, in most instances, I prefer to use a stick for trotting. Spooking the fish? Not that I've noticed.................

O.C.F.Disorder · Nov 5, 2018

Neil Maidment said:
Both definitely have their place and I often alternate between the two when I'm trotting for winter chub on the Stour and Avon.

Not sure about the noise/disturbance factor when fishing "top and bottom". The bottom only waggler collapses on the strike with less surface disturbance but initially travels under and through the water sometimes with a large bow of line "whipping" through the surface.

The top and bottom balsa is my favourite with various shotting patterns, typically including a bulk. But even with the chub responding well they often back off. One thought, not mine initially, is that they become "shot shy" with a bulk(s) continually going through the hot area. Switching to a waggler, often a short fat pellet waggler or, on shallower swims, a Trent Trotter, with virtually all the required shot bunched around the float and just a single No:1 or No:4 down will work wonders.

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Neil, its so pleasurable hearing some one else confirm a tactic used in ones own angling! I defo think they are shot shy. Bulking shot under the float with a lil one near hook works wonders as long as you dont have to cast far! IMO the bait also moves differently when the shot is bulked at the top and I think the chub like this too.

As a newcomer to fishing I was shocked at how much shotting patterns mattered. It really can be the difference between an incredible session and a terrible session. T

108831 · Nov 5, 2018

Billy Lane shows the Trent trotter rigged so as not to rip the surface,this spooking fish,there are and will be occasions when conditions make fish spooky,perhaps low,clear,cooling water at this time of year might not respond well to the ripping of the surface,by the way this normally happens when you miss a bite,when you hook fish you normally get that plonk sound,I've said this before too,but there are days on running water when presentation is superior on the waggler,I've won matches on the Trent,Wye,Severn,GtOuse,Thames and not just chub,but barbel,roach and dace too,some in highish water conditions,being confident often is the key and having several go to shotting patterns to fall back on.

Keith M · Nov 5, 2018

barbelboi said:
I'm also of the opinion that both have their places but, in most instances, I prefer to use a stick for trotting. Spooking the fish? Not that I've noticed.................

Im in agreement with Barbelboi.

Unless there is a strong downstream wind, or the speed of the flow is very slow like on a canal or I’m fishing a wide and slow running river then I much prefer to use a Stick or Avon or Balsa or Chubber than fish a waggler; and this is true on all of the flowing streams and small rivers that I fish.

There is more disturbance and noise from the wildfowl that swim up and down the streams and rivers that I fish, and these don’t seem to scare the fish in the least (unless the commotion is caused by a hungry cormorant

) nor do the ripples and gurgles which are produced as the water squeezes past or through various obstructions or along the shallower runs; and non of this seems to send the fish into a panic; well not on the small streams and rivers that I fish anyway.

If I were fishing a very large float and maybe not keeping out of sight as much as I could, or the fish were being suspiciously absent after striking then I might agree, but this very rarely happens to me (famous last words

) unless I hook into some weed or something drifting in the flow and try to drag it back upstream or I pricked a fish temporarily.

If my bites did temporarily cease after I’ve stuck into a fish then it’s usually because I’ve pricked a fish on the strike; and the hook point hadn’t been pulled fully home; and the fish had temporarily introduced panic amongst its neibours; this is usually because of a blunt hook point and I would rarely put it down to the float I’m using.

Keith

108831 · Nov 5, 2018

Keith,the reason for using a waggler has little to do with what you'd rather do,it is whether it's right for the presentation required and a stick float though designed for fishing on the drop on canals of the North West are useless for the same method on a river,I more often than not these days use bulk shotted double rubber floats on the pin,because I enjoy it,but it is often the wrong method and I should have two rods made up,one on the waggler.

tigger · Nov 5, 2018

Since the majority of my trotting involves tripping bottom or even dragging bottom and sometimes fishing way overdepth I nearly always use a bolo float.
I think the only time I would bother using a waggler on the river would be if the river where to be a little sluggish and had a bit of depth to it, say 5ft or more and I was fishing beyond 30yds and I was fiishing up off the bottom.
In the faster flowing rivers round my area, which for the biggest part have very uneaven or rocky bottoms a waggler would just be dragged under.
Regarding the splash produced by a stickfloat, or in my case a bolo float, I really haven't noticed that it spooks the fish in any way at all, and that includes pretty much all the species in the rivers I fish.

108831 · Nov 6, 2018

I have dragged some quite heavy shot(2 no.1's)3ft overdepth on fast flowing rivers,we've talked about this before,I personally think controlling a waggler is a little easier than the bollo,but it's what the individual prefers to achieve enough control to catch well that counts.

tigger · Nov 6, 2018

whitty said:
I have dragged some quite heavy shot(2 no.1's)3ft overdepth on fast flowing rivers,we've talked about this before,I personally think controlling a waggler is a little easier than the bollo,but it's what the individual prefers to achieve enough control to catch well that counts.

I know what you mean Alan but it's not the actual weigh of the shot dragging that pulls under the float, it's because the weights are constantly getting wedged iinbetween rocks and pebbles etc.
I just have a lot more control over a bolo float also. I very often have to hold back hard and run the set up slowly down the run and I can't really do that with a waggler float. At the end of the day it's down to what you just said....it's what the individual prefers to use and whats best on the venue.

Stick v waggled float

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