Its happened again

Bill Cox · Dec 31, 2008

Well once again we have found evidence of fish being taken for the pot from one of our lakes. Thats four occaisions this year, the last being a group taking ans barbequeing small stuff, half pound roach and rudd and bream. left all the evidence behind heads tails bones used portable barbis. This time sometime between christmas eve and today someone has had a carp of about 15/16 pound out and butcherd and cooked it on the bank. Veg and peelings lieing around and the carps fins and a lot of scales and skin, some of the skin complete with scales was almost eight inches deep/wide.no sign of the fish of course. In some polish******** gut by now. I really find it hard to understand this, its not ignorance its willful disregard for what they know to be other peoples property. If i went to Poland and butcherd and ate a chicken on the farmers land i would be arrested and probably jailed but i would not do that because i am English and respect the country i'm visiting. Why can they not respect our country?

Wolfman Woody · Dec 31, 2008

"If i went to Poland and butcherd and ate a chicken on the farmers land i would be arrested and probably jailed"

No need to go to Poland, try it in this country and you'll get arrested. Chickens aren't fish, Bill.

However, some region's bye-laws allow you to remove one or two fish for eating (with the owner's permission if it's a lake) so in some respects they are respecting our country and its laws.

ANDY SKI · Dec 31, 2008

There we go again,why do we Poles get blamed for everything??/forum/smilies/i_dont_know_smiley.gif

Steve Spiller · Dec 31, 2008

Andy, with all respect, this never used to happen.

As has been said, bye-laws let anglers take one or two fish. The anglers who do this don't usually BBQ them on the bank? And to be honest it's been a bit too cold between Christmas and today for a BBQ!

I'm not having a go at you mate, I know you're a good un, but come on mate Bill is obviously angry about the situation.

Happy New Year to ALL

ANDY SKI · Jan 1, 2009

Hi Steve
Bill is obviously angry I do not blame him, but I am angry too because everyone who finds a dead fish seems to think it was Poles who did it.
Remember the story about those guys caught on Wissey back in may, everyone taught they were Polish, in fact they were Lithuanians .I’m not sure if it makes a difference to you but it certainly does for me .
Happy New Year and lets hope we won’t see and hear stories like this in 2009

Graham Whatmore · Jan 1, 2009

I agree with Andy, it is unfair to blame the Poles for all the poaching. I don't know how many times it has to be said before it finally sinks in, that all Europeans eat the fish they catch and that they catch fish for the pot. It is a fact of life and they see no wrong in it because they have been brought up to think this is a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to do just as we in this country did not all that many years ago.

No it isn't acceptable that they steal prime carp from a private fishery and they will need to understand this but lets not run away with the idea that it is in some way barbaric, it isn't, it is something that peoples all over the world do as a matter of course.

Enjoy your next fish and chips won't you...........or will you?

Steve Spiller · Jan 1, 2009

Point taken Andy, I do understand that it makes a difference to you.

Bill, are there any signs up saying no fish to be removed or eaten?

Spitfire Flyer · Jan 1, 2009

So the EE's are still at it, taking a few fish for the pot, as is said, its naturalto them.

And what difference is it going to make to overall fish stocks?........ non whatsoever, its a drop in the ocean.

Live and let live and worry about something worth worrying about.

The bad one · Jan 1, 2009

It is an offence to take fish from an enclosed water without the owners consent, plain and simple. Falls under the Theft Act.

That is the law of the land in the UK. Ignorance in the eyes of the law is no excuse.

Whilstit is afact andthe norm in many countries throughout the EU and the world thatthey eat all fish caught, it is not excusable to claim my culture says I can take and eat them, so therefore I'm above the law of your land that does not allow me to take/eat them.

It may possibly be used in mitigation to reduce the severity of any punishment, but the fact still remains a Criminal Act has been committed.

Oh and BTW a change is going to come. An amendment is in the Marine Bill to make it a criminal offence to take fish from rivers where at the moment there is some gray area.

BarryC · Jan 1, 2009

So the credit crunch is affecting you badly and you have just been put on short time or worse still work for Woolies.

The kids are living on baked beans and fish fingers.

You go fishing to keep you sane, theres plenty of 3 to 5lb pike.

Its legal to take one for the pot, so who would or more to the point who would admit it.

Think I might.

The bad one · Jan 1, 2009

As it's your first post EVER I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as to whether you are a wined up merchant or not Spitfire!

You seem to fail to grasp the severity of the situation that has been and continues to happen nationally regarding fish THEFT.

Can I respectfully suggest that you do a little research on this and other sites before you make comments like you have done. Fish Theft is happening on quite a large organised scale in some part of the UK by organised gangs of no UK citizens. Such acts of Theft are not a drop in the ocean as you put, but impact on the who ecology of a particular water where it happens.

The bad one · Jan 1, 2009

Barry C it is only legal on enclosed waters where the owner gives you consent.... otherwise it's theft under the Theft Act...... for the second time of writing!

On rivers there is for now, soon to be closed off thankfully, a gray area. However, if the owner or controlling club doesn't allow you to take fish from their length of river. They could if they were minded, take you through the civil courts for breach of rules.If you were caught infringing those rules in any of the clubs I'm in, at a minimum you would lose your membership of that their is no doubt.

BarryC · Jan 1, 2009

Bad one

I should have said 'where it is legal'. I did not mean to imply that it is legal everywhere.

Bill Cox · Jan 1, 2009

I a AM angry very angry!! There are enough notices up there in several languages and its been polish people in the past that have been caught and moved on by the bailiffs. I take your point regards all eastern Europeans eating fish but this is Britain not the eastern bloc. I'm a single parent who works two jobs to struggle through and i know about poverty because i ****ing live it. So please don't tell me being poor gives people the right to steal fish. Nobody needs to starve in this country ! nobody!! It is either a total disregard for our laws and customs or on an all to increasing scale an organised commercial venture, stealing to sell on. The bailiffs do a great job on our waters but its impossible to be everywhere. Its a good job i never caught the ones they moved on either because it would have been either me or them in hospital, these thugs need mauling as its all they understand.

Sorry for ranting and rambling on but i am really incensed about this.

Tony Rocca · Jan 1, 2009

Hmmm, I have been thinking about this of late and have changed my mind about the situation somewhat.

I have caught 3 lots of our European friends with roach in carrier bags on the Trentmyself over the last 18 months, but, I have to say I now agree with the Spitfire.

The bad one talks of theft, yesmaybe, but no worse than all the english who fish where they shouldnt and do not pay....... same legislation applies.

He talks ofthe impact on ecology but the death of 2 pike through poor angling would have a greater impact on the number of silver fish on a bit of riverin a year than the activity of a few Poles.I cant equate theeffect on commercial fisheries as the ecosystem has been buggered by us overstocking anyway, a far worse crime in my book.

I have also spent a lot of time fishing in Spain of late where its still common practice to take fish home......... the rivers and dams are stillfull of fish, hows that then Bad one?

There are far more important threats to our waterways than this so next time I come accrosssome poles taking a fewfish I will make sure I have learnt the Polish for "Enjoy".

This country is currentlyup the creek without a paddle and this issue is really of no importancein the grand scheme of things to the extent that I dont intend arguing about it Phil, you think as you wish.

Happy new year.

Edit....... Clam down Bill everything will sort itself in time and the overall effect will be nil.

Frothey · Jan 1, 2009

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Steve Spiller wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

Andy, with all respect, this never used to happen.</blockquote>

we used to have problems down our way with indegenous pikies in the 80's

and that hugh fearnsley bloke /forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

Ray Daywalker Clarke · Jan 1, 2009

Fishing without a permit and taking fish are two different things altogether.

Fish without a rod licence, get a fine, nick fish and that seems to be fine. I have only heard of people being taken to court because they might be using nets etc.

One simple law would stop it all. NO FISH to be taken from any waters at anytime.

trev (100M bronze) · Jan 1, 2009

Putting signs up is not stopping those that still do it. Land and lake owners are the ones that need to do something, what we need is for some poachers to get caught and dealt with and for the papers to be given the story. Actually what we need is for some english anglers to catch some poachers in the act and deal with them on the bank there and then and severely too, and yes I am talking a good kicking. Perhaps then it will make the press and the word will get out that we dont like poachers killing our fish.

If its the law to keep two fish per angler then the very next 20lb carp I catch im going to kill and send pics to the press. then the next time I catch another big Carp or Barbel im going to kill those too. And no one can do a thing about it because I have the law on my side.

If I catch anyone killing fish I will make the press.

Tony Rocca · Jan 1, 2009

Ray,

Except trout and Salmon,oh and I like the odd grayling too if thats ok. ;o)

They are all just fish.

Wolfman Woody · Jan 1, 2009

Even on an enclosed water it is difficult to prove that a theft of fish has taken place. This is because fish are considered to be feral (wild and not owned by anyone), but if you catch one, you become the owner of that fish. Yes, YOU and not the landowner.

However, the rules of the fishery say that all fish must be returned and having done so, the fish becomes feral once more.

Now, in order to test this in court you have to find some wayof imposing a fine for breaking a self-imposed rule - that of failing to return a fish. A fish that legally you now own.

In quotating this, I am using examples from Peter Carty's book - Angling and the Law.

"If its the law to keep two fish per angler then the very next 20lb carp I catch im going to kill and send pics to the press. then the next time I catch another big Carp or Barbel im going to kill those too. And no one can do a thing about it because I have the law on my side."

Efectively - YES! And if it's a river carp (or a zander) then all well and good, thank you! The nation will owe you a debt of gratitude. Not so sure about the big barbel though, legal as it may be. The mighty Pope might be writing to you.

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