Are stockie carp the new grey squirrels?

Went to my local fishing shop the other day to pick up casters for some roach fishing I plan to do tomorrow, and guess what right in front of me is an advert for a new " Fishery" which has opened a couple of miles up the road, created from an original farm pond which had a few traditional species and was fished by local kids for free.

According to the blurb,the 'fishery'contains roach, rudd, skimmers, perch and tench plushundredsof newly introduced small carp and will become the premier 'bagging' water soon....

More damn carp? Just how much more 'vermin' can our stillwaters sustain? Is that what anglers really want? Given there are so many of them and they are so ravenous, where then is the achievement in catching a huge weight of them?

Harsh, you might think to call them 'vermin', but introducing these eating machines will in the long run kill off the more docile species like tench and rudd who will find themselves at the bottom of the food chain.

As far as I am concernedstockie carp the new grey squirrels !

They will never find a place in my heart as long as roach and barbel swim...

What do you think?

trouble is peter thats what they think we all want to fish for.

One of the problems is match fishing.

Match anglers don't particularly care what the species they catch is, as long as it will fill a keepnet quickly and give lots of bites. A fish to a match angler is just so much weight to produce points; like a coloured ball to a snooker or pool player or likegoal posts to a footballer.

I remember when a match angler was once asked which he would rather catch, a 2 1/2lb carpor a 2 lb roach. You can guess what his answer was.

Hence the stocking of these waters with lots of small carp or F1s

Hence the rarity now of that magnificent species - the rudd.

Hit it on the nail Ron. Very sad isn't it. That is exactly why I prefer river fishing.

Amen.

How can we as Anglers fight the Anti boys when we produce waters such as this, but more to the point F1 carp.

This fish grows fast, is not natural. Take a good long look at the Kennel Club and dogs.

Crufts dog show is now not on the TV due to breeders cross breeding, and the sponsers have left them for good, it didn't take long for that to happen, did it.

It's not just down to match angler's, it's down to angler's wanting to catch fish. I don't use these waters because of the fact many are just in it for the money, but not all of them I am pleased to say.

These waters do help in a way, as they give young kids the chance to catch something when they first go fishing, many would soon walk away from the sport if they did not catch anything.

So as much as I, and others ,do not like them, they do help angling.

As for the F1 carp, they should be banned, we are playing with nature, something the Anti boys will play on, and in truth we dont't have a leg to stand on, do we.?

Hence the stocking of these waters with lots of small carp or F1s

Hence the rarity now of that magnificent species - the rudd.

Yes amen to that indeed-I`m having doubts(not really) about starting again-only because I go back to when rudd fishing was fun

Stephen,

Rudd what are they??, I used to fish a couple of gravel pits, had Rudd close to 3lb, not now, Carp were stocked into the water, 6 years down the line, you can still get the odd good fish over the 2lb mark, as for the backup fish, very few and far between.

Stephen???

Now lets get one thing clear here -it`s STEPHAN-and I almost missed the second morning of the Headingley test v WI (1976) cos I was taking my first degree certificate back.

You are not the first,and sadly you will not be the last.

But rant over-The waters I knew for rudd fishing are now either `watersports` lakes or are vanishing with the AI/M1 link-between Bedford and junction 13 of the M1

Stephan,

It's Stephan/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

Hi Stephan ./forum/smilies/big_smile_smiley.gif

Is that the South African perspective Ron?

I heard you down there preparing the country anmd Afrikans for the World Cup....

Sadly it is not just the newcomers jumping on the Carp Bandwagon a lot of respected match anglers who are very skilled on rivers and canals have abandoned these waters to amass huge weights of Carp on overstocked waters .I abandoned match fishing and Carp were one of the reasons.

YES, I AGREE. CARP ARE AKIN TO THE GREY SQUIRREL WHEN INTRODUCED EXCESSIVELY TO A FISHERY.

It's a case of balance.

About 15 years ago I was a member of a Cheshire fishing club. The club's premier water was amixed fishery, but was fished mainly for tench and golden orfe. It was an idillic still water off the beaten track.

In my opinion, the water was destroyed when hundreds of small pasties were stocked. Sometimes I used to fish a small bomb with a grain of corn - a simple method that caught fish. However, once the carp were introduced, I would only hit about 1 in 10 bites (wrap rounds) - and what was on the end? Another pastie. It destroyed the fishing. The pasties were like a plague of rats. It spoiled the place for me.

I won't say anything about the chub, barbel, trout and salmon that were also introduced...

Like it or not, go to a well run commercial that hasrefreshments, tackle and bait facilities and you'll find a very popular water. Most anglers want bites and convenience; grab your gear, go to the fishery, have a good breakfast, buy your ticket and bait for the day, fish for a few hours and then maybe have some lunch or a brew, and then fish for another few hours.

It may not suit us all but go and have a look at commercials that offer the above and that's where you'll find the majority of anglers.

Especially now the rivers are shut for three months.

That is so true Graham. And I can see the attraction of these waters. I think the IS a place in angling for F1 carp, but not in established waters with traditional species like Peter's local pond. These fish will scoff all available food to the detriment of the other species. Soon the tench will look thin and withered and will eventually die out. Even the skimmers will not get a chance to grow on.

However, if someone digs a new lake especially for matchmen and stock the lake with F1's and nothing else then fine. (Well, maybe a few perch.) This will keep the matchmen happy, will it not?

Carp of all varieties should now be prohibited from all waters where other species are thriving.Enough is enough.

But that is awish that will go unheeded. And I'm afraid it's too late for most mixed fisheries.

That was my point Graham, it's not just the matchmen. Anglers want to catch fish, and these waters give young kids coming into the sport the chance to catch fish and get hooked on the sport. (pun? what pun?).

It's the F1 carp thing I am not for, let's not forget the Trout also. Would we allow Doctors to produce quick growing Humans???. Carp will grow just fine as they are.

These are not my kind of water, even with the close season, but if it's what anglers want, then that is their choice, these waters must be a hit with anglers or there wouldn't be so many around.

I hold my hands up - I am a match angler. However I agree that pastie carp are a plague. It isn't just pasties that are a plague all sizes of carp in the wrong place are. There are too many of them and they are spoiling the fishing on certain lakes. Enough is enough. Fine to create a new fishery and the owner can then stock whatever he wants but they shouldn't be introduced to ponds, meres, canals, reservoirs and lakes let alone rivers. Even the Norfolk Broads and the rivers that connect some of them have a head of carp in them, 'liberated' by some twit who wants to catch it again and again but doesn't want anyone else to.

I fish rivers and commercials in equal amounts during the summer. Commercials in the winter bacause the rivers locally don't fish well in the winter in matches.

The comments about match anglers only wanting bites and not caring for the fish are incorrect. Match anglers are like any other anglers they go fishing for pleasure. They don't dislike catching fish of course unlike some carp anglers who seem to boast about the number of blank hours they 'have put in' on a water. But they enjoy the meeting up with mates, some enjoy the limited and short lived local 'fame' but most just enjoy the day, the banter and the company. They look after the fish as well as any other anglers. Even more so than than some carp anglers I have seen who having caught a large bream or even specimen tench and start swearing about 'snotties'. We even had some complaining about the 2lb roach that were picking up their boilies. There are bad eggs in every batch!

Small carp certainly have a place in fishing though. Not just in match fishing but there are a lot of 'pleasure' anglers (don't we all fish for pleasure?) who use commercial fisheries unfortunately at the expense of angling clubs. The reason being that you don't need so much skill to catch a few fish on these waters as you do on most club waters be they gravel pits, rivers or old estate lakes. There are more individual anglers who fish my local commercial than there are match anglers during the summer months.

I teach children to fish at the local commercial. I don't take them onto the match lakes where they could catch carp but onto the training pool which is stocked with rudd to a 1 1/2lb and roach to 3/4lb. There are a few skimmers in there and a small number of tench. Only once they are proficient in catching and handling those fish do I take them onto the match lakes for carp. I enjoy showing them that fishing up in the water they will catch more rudd than roach, why the mouths of rudd and roach are different and explaining to them why one is underslung and the other the opposite. Why you often get lift bites from skimmers. All those things that are essential to give a youngster a good start on a lifetime of angling.

I agree with much of what you say Waveney. I wasn't bashing match anglers as such more the perception by farmers and the like who open commercial fisheries that carp of the pastie variety is what anglers want to catch.

Introducing barrow loads of them into a pond that already had a stock of reasonable rudd, roach and tench virtually signs their death warrant. They won't get a look in now, its all carp, carp and more carp....

Ironically, when not on the rivers I fish a small established private lake not far from my home which which attracts the bivvy brigade because there are huge carp in it. However, there are also lots of"grey squirrel pasties" too and its a job avoiding them becausethere is a fantastic head of pristine roach and rudd and some pretty mean looking perch largely ignored and waiting to be caught!

My mate and I are the only ones there fishing for the roach, and you would not believe some of the catches we have, even in winter.The carp anglers cannot get their heads around why we aren't interested in carp, as if they were the only species worth fishing for! Plonkers!

We just tell them we are ABC anglers! 'Anything but carp, and leave the vermin to them!