The pH value for a given water

Reading an old book on Tench fishing I found reference to the(possible)benefits of taking apH reading for a water.The book,co-written by Barrie Rickards(I think its Dr now)back in the mid-1970's suggests a pH value of(between)7.5 and 10and may have some influence on the size of fish that might be expected from a water with a high pH value.

Mr Rickards suggests the Water Board might carry out such a test(unlikely these days unless its for big bucks!)but aseverything hasmoved on perhaps this is a simple matter some 35 years later....perhaps a kit of some sort exists??

Personally I have no idea about Ph values but I intend todo a bit of research via google to gen up on what it all means..................and take some readings where big fish exist and where the fish never reach any size.Obviously,many other factors,size of water,natural food supply etc would also have an effect but none-the-less its an interesting subject!!

Thepoint of this Thread?....well,I would be interested to know if anyone has any knowledge around this subject,if anyonefeels ahigh pH value is beneficial(or otherwise)and the reasons for that thinking.

(I seem to recall **** Walker(or someone of his time)talking about this subject but cannot recall where I read it or its conclusions.........................)

All good aquatic and pond shops will sell a kit to test for the level of PH, either in a strip form (dip it in water, and take a reading of the colour) or as a liquid kit where you add the liquid. This is called Universal indicator and the kits from shops should be no more than ?10 for many tests, but should normally be around ?5 for a large packet (50 strips i think).

The ph, is a measure of the acidity / alkaline content of the liquid, southern chalk streams would be alkaline and hence have a reading of 8+. (7 is neutral).

So.... maybe a alkaline watr is better for fish growth, as southern chalk streams, seem to have large fish. BUT, i do not know and would have little idea how to find out. Although i would image that more alkaline water would be better for fish, as opposed to acidic water. (remember acid rain can kill fish)

Ryan

It may be worth a look at fish keeping sites in general Tee-Cee, i'm certain this is something that is looked into in great detail.

A neutral ph value is 7. The higher the ph the more alkaline the water. Lower the ph and you get acidic water.

The high ph required to keep Malawi Cychlids would kill Ramirez Cychlids which come from the Brazillian rain forests.

What effect the values would have on native fish such as tench I have absolutely no 'kin idea at all /forum/smilies/embarassed_smiley.gif

Kits are available from your local petshop or fishkeeping centre in the form of litmus paper tests.

Teecee you can also get digital pH meters from laboratory equipment suppliers, but these usually require a solution to be carried in order to calibrate them with, usually demineralised/distilled water!

Other than extremes of pH, where most species offish and/or other life won't survive, I am not sure what value there is in measuring 'just' the one variable as like with most things that affect fish and fishing, water pH is just one variable amongst many that affect the aquatic environment.

Is it that the fish size (for example)is down to pH or available food, temperature, light level depth, competitionor a combination of all of them? In short I don't think that from measuring that one value that you candraw too many conclusions mate.

Thats fair enough and pretty much the sort of answers I expected to get........too many factors involved to ever be able to say pH is significant......I agree 100%!

HOWEVER,in looking through Google this subject has been recently discussed on another fishing website but more in the context of water pH values relative to boilie pH values..............along the lines:'a fish(carp in this case)may well be interested/attractedto a boilie with a higher pH value(or a pH value significantly different to the wateritswims in'!).

It was,in all honesty,a little too technical for me as other long words such as ionisation were being used and although they seemed tomake a rational argument I cannot judge through lack of knowledge on the subject.I might have another look and come back......

Out of interest(and if its only a fiver involved)I may just take some readings of several local waters using the litmus paper test suggested above....

Oh,by the way,I recall it was **** Walker talking about pH values and that Redmire Pool was found to have a very high pH value indeed...............

Apparently a book'Strategic Carp Fishing by Hughes & Crow'discusses this subject at length..can't say I've ever heard of this book or the authors..................its all in chapter 4 out of interest!!

................and anyway,how can you do a pH value for a solid(sach as a boilie)unless its measured after the boilie has disintigrated in the water??

Apparently big time attractors such as Scopex,Tutti etc have a low pH value.............I think I might go back to bed.....................too much for a Saturday morning!

Thanks to all the above posters for responding!!

There's reference to pH in a textbook "Life in Lakes and Rivers" by Macan and Worthington, 1972.

"pH at one time enjoyed a great vogue among ecologists, partly because it is easy to measure......"

"An alkaline pH usually indicates a fairly high concentration of calcium, but..... may be due to other substances such as magnesium.........pH, therefore gives only a rough indication of conditionsobtaining in a body of water and its importance in ecology is not as great as was formerly thought."

Most Broadland waterways in particular "Broads" (large stillwaters) are the result of peat digging in years gone by, peat is slightly acidic around pH6.5 which has the effect of making the water slightly acidic, these waters are known to harbour some big tench although in smaller stock densities than most other water types.

So given these facts I would guess it makes little difference, although an especially low or high pH I guess would be detrimental to fish health.

I do regular pH testing as part of my work, and most waters I have access to are pH 6.8-7.8

As an example: an estate lake surrounded by Rhododendrons (which thrive in slightly acidic soil) will be < pH7 indicating a slightly acidic soil or peat.

Some old gravel workings will be slightly alkaline > pH7 which is a result of chalk being exposed I would think.

Getting back to the OP question, I would think a pH of 10 could be very detrimental, but would love to see evidence to disprove this.

Now thats what I call a bloody good reply LongMan-concise and to the point and nothing for anyoneto argue with..........(?)

I'm intending to take some readings from Gravel Pits(just out of interest as I can't catch Tench anyway regardless of pH values!)so I will see how pH7 figure you mention compares.....................

Keith2-probably about right.................interesting subject non-the-less.......but unlikely to catch me more/bigger Tench then????

Damn it!................................

it's not so much the pH of the bait, it's the difference in pH - if the water has a pH of 3, no point using a bait with a pH of 3 (mainly because all the fish would be dead lol - but you get the idea!). fish reportedly are attracted to localised differences in pH.

where the theory falls down is the patch of silt next to a clean gravel patch on the edge of a weedbed will all give different pH readings..... and will change during the day/night. so go for an extreme - use loads of chilli in a bait, use citrus oils, lots of salt - all will modify the pH.

Alkaline waters also tend to give a better habitat for invertibrates and plants to grow.

Tee cee, I think there are many other factors that are more important than pH when choosing a tench water.

I would first consider weed growth - if there's lots of submerged weed such as elodea and milfoil, plus floating marginal weed such as potamogeton, this indicates that the water has plenty of food for fish. So if there's tench present, it may be a good place.

I'd also ask other anglers. They may give you all the information you need about the potential of the water. I know a good gravel pit where the carp anglers are quite open about their catches of large carp and occasional tench. Thetench, although large for the region I live in, can be very hard to catch.