Griff Rhys Jones

davegn · Aug 3, 2009

I read onle a week or so ago on this message board a condemnation of Griff for his attack on anglers for his comments on canoeing on rivers.
Well,anyone who watch the latest edition of "Rivers" will be thinking twice about those words.
There he was on a gravel pit in Nottinghamshire spending the night fishing for carp with two local lads! And not a hint of derision from him!
Just shows that one can be too quick off of the the mark!

The bad one · Aug 3, 2009

upnorth said:
I read onle a week or so ago on this message board a condemnation of Griff for his attack on anglers for his comments on canoeing on rivers.
Well,anyone who watch the latest edition of "Rivers" will be thinking twice about those words.
There he was on a gravel pit in Nottinghamshire spending the night fishing for carp with two local lads! And not a hint of derision from him!
Just shows that one can be too quick off of the the mark!

Nop don't think so! It showed him canoeing on the upper Trent.......committing "trespass" Ergo supporting the canoeists to break the Civil Law. No navigation rights on the upper Trent. Not a hint of derision ..... more like taking the urine out of carp fishing to me!

Stealph Viper · Aug 3, 2009

That's it, paddle your canoe up a river you don't fish on, and then, go carp fishing on a pool that there's no canoeists to disrupt your nice calm fishing session.
Double standards i would say.
Should get a thousand Carp Anglers to race there bait boats all through his swim and see what he thinks then.

Chris Season32 · Aug 3, 2009

'Three Men In A Boat' was enough for me, the guys a few shades beyond blonde.

davegn · Aug 3, 2009

Did you and I watch the same programme? Or are you so vindictive that you see malice where there is none?
Your pseudonym is well chosen, Bad One!

Nobby C (ACA) · Aug 4, 2009

Program is titled "Rivers", he then goes to a gravel pit and spends time with night fishers ?
Never saw it, did he 'paddle' on the gravel pit ?, was said pit connected to a river ? Can't see much that makes sense to me, regardless; he made inflammatory statements encouraging confrontation, I see him in the light he illuminated himself in.

The bad one · Aug 4, 2009

upnorth said:
Did you and I watch the same programme? Or are you so vindictive that you see malice where there is none?
Your pseudonym is well chosen, Bad One!

Yep I watched the same prog as you and yes he took the urine! Malice no, I hate people who think, like he does, it OK to trespass on a river they have no right to be on.

I hate people who drag crafts across spawning redds, be those coarse of game, when the rivers are low, disturbing the eggs out of well oxygenated water, to drift off into the next deep pool where they fail to hatch and/or are predated on by scavengers. And then claim they have no environmental or ecological impact on the river systems they do it on!

Have I seen this done, yes! I've even got photos of them doing it! Is that Malice? ......I doubt it! It's an overriding concern for the long-term sustainability of the fish stocks in the precarious states this nations rivers now find themselves in.

Furthermore if such a man self-appoints himself as the spokesperson for those that do this, then he deserves all the flack that comes his way......Period!

alan whittington · Aug 4, 2009

Sorry Upnorth but i think Phil is right Griff Rhys Jones is giving out strong signals and in doing so shows what a complete prat he really is(if he ever needed to),but if you watch the programme with a non-angling head on it was good viewing,ask my missus.

Peter Jacobs · Aug 4, 2009

Upnorth,

One of the main problems with using a psudonym instead of one's name is that if you knew the man that is 'the Bad One' then you would realise that Phil's head and heart are both in the right place when it comes to the protection of our rivers for future generations of anglers.

Now, Phil and I have crossed swords on many occasions in the past but on this principle I agree with him wholeheartedly.

Regardless of any future programmes in this series for the (anti-angling) BBC this actor has openly invited animosity between paddlers and anglers, and for that he was rightly castigated, both on FM and on the BBC comments webpages.

davegn · Aug 4, 2009

Sorry but having watched both the programmes so far, I did not as an angler take umbrage as to what Griff said about canoeing rights, if it was not for a few brave souls in the 30s we would not have the Right to Access that we have today over much of our beautiful countryside. Anglers do not own the rivers, the Riparian Rights are those of the Landowner, who has the right to decide whatever they want about the usage.
As for canoeists ripping Rede bads of spawned eggs, if the water is that shallow they get out and carry their canoes!
Once again we anglers are acting as sanctimonious individuals who think that they have all the rights to the rivers....WE DO NOT! So let Griff say what he wants, he has that Right!
Personally, I find him eccentric but fascinating and a great guy to talk with!
Only met him the once but really a first rate individual.

Stealph Viper · Aug 4, 2009

Whether Gryff is a decent bloke matters not, what does matter is that no person has the right to encourage others to break the law, and he also has no right to encite others to break the law with him.
If the rights are owned by the landowner, and the land owner extends his courtesy to allow Anglers to fish his waters, but does not wish canoeists to use his stretch of water, should them rights not be respected rather than flaunted by someone who shows a total lack of respect to that land owners wishes?
If the Land Owner wishes to allow access to his waters for Canoeists also, that is fine, and Anglers will just have to respect that or fish else where.
If an Angler or a Canoeist was seriously hurt because of actions brought on by sanctimonious behaviour, would that still be ok? because Gryff said the Canoeists could do it?

Peter Jacobs · Aug 4, 2009

upnorth said:
Sorry but having watched both the programmes so far, I did not as an angler take umbrage as to what Griff said about canoeing rights, if it was not for a few brave souls in the 30s we would not have the Right to Access that we have today over much of our beautiful countryside. Anglers do not own the rivers, the Riparian Rights are those of the Landowner, who has the right to decide whatever they want about the usage.
As for canoeists ripping Rede bads of spawned eggs, if the water is that shallow they get out and carry their canoes!
Once again we anglers are acting as sanctimonious individuals who think that they have all the rights to the rivers....WE DO NOT! So let Griff say what he wants, he has that Right!
Personally, I find him eccentric but fascinating and a great guy to talk with!
Only met him the once but really a first rate individual.

I would agree that if a Riparian Owner decides to allow canoe access onto his side of the river, then he has that right. However, if he has already leased the fishing to a club or syndicate then he had better be aware that those leases will, in all probability, not be renewed. Hopefully then the paddlers will make up the financial losses of the Riparian Owners, although I fail to see where they might conjure up the 35k that we pay for our syndicated stretch of the 3 miles of a particular river.

As to paddlers destroying spawning sites, well, if Phil says he has seen this with his own eyes than I for one am inclined not to dispute the fact.

Finally, it is highly disputable that Mr. Jones has any Rights whatsoever to incite others to unruly, dangerous or other behaviour likely to cause a breech of the peace. If proved to have been the instigator then he too would be liable to prosecution.

Unlike you, I have never met the man, (and have only been mildly entertained by some of his programmes) notwithstanding, the man was guilty of less than intelligent comments on National television and has taken the 'flak' accordingly.

Dave Slater · Aug 4, 2009

I totally agree with you Peter, and to top it all he is Welsh !!!

I have spent a lot of my time this season on the stretch you mention and I am sure they would not let him or his countrymen anywhere near there as there are hundreds of sheep there at the moment. Knowing how strict they are on that estate regarding times, access etc. I am certain they would not allow canoes there, especially as it is part of an SSSI.

I did see a canoe go through the stretch a few weeks ago and the conoeist ignored me when I chalenged him. I hope he hadn't been influenced by Jones and thought he had the right to do this.

The bad one · Aug 4, 2009

upnorth said:
Sorry but having watched both the programmes so far, I did not as an angler take umbrage as to what Griff said about canoeing rights, if it was not for a few brave souls in the 30s we would not have the Right to Access that we have today over much of our beautiful countryside. Anglers do not own the rivers, the Riparian Rights are those of the Landowner, who has the right to decide whatever they want about the usage.
As for canoeists ripping Rede bads of spawned eggs, if the water is that shallow they get out and carry their canoes!
Once again we anglers are acting as sanctimonious individuals who think that they have all the rights to the rivers....WE DO NOT! So let Griff say what he wants, he has that Right!
Personally, I find him eccentric but fascinating and a great guy to talk with!
Only met him the once but really a first rate individual.

You clearly have little or any knowledge about canoes and the depth of water they can use or attempt to use. Lazy bar steward only ever carry the canoes to the water in this country.

Your knowledge of spawning Redds (correct spelling) is even less and the damage that can be done by dragging (note Dragging not carrying) a canoe across them. You claim to come from Up north well you should know that from Preston to the boarders and beyond the river are spate rivers. And spate rivers by their very nature are steep decent rivers that at NSTF run very shallow on a riffle and pool basis. Such rivers in such conditions won't take the pressure of canoes coming down in armadas.

As Peter has pointed out to you, many landowners have no wish to have paddlers on their land or stretch of river. As far as landownership is concerned and my clubs, they own many of the lengths of river, and sure as hell don't want paddlers on them for the aggro and destruction they cause.

As for GRJ having the right to say what he wants. He only, like all of use, has the right to say what he wants within the law of the land. And what he said was incitement to others to disrupt the pleasure of other river users. And that fact might well be investigated and tested in a court of law in the not to distant future.

And in closing answer me this question "Why is that the British Canoe Union has not this year renewed any of its previous negotiated access right on any river in England and Wales?

alan whittington · Aug 4, 2009

Because their a shower of s**t with a hidden agenda thats not so hidden Phil.

davegn · Aug 4, 2009

I actually have a good knowledge of canoeing as in my youth I actually practiced it on my local rivers, after proper intial training in a local swimming pool, so I do know that the etiquette of canoeing obliges one to avoid spawning beds! It also makes the point not to ground one's canoe in shallow water, but to get out and walk.
So when talking gibberish, check up on facts!
I do know that some canoeists will break these rules but then many anglers do the same with the rules of angling and the Law.
And it is not yet a criminal act to speak ones mind about changes in the law Peter, I do not think that what Griff said was in any means an invitation to canoeists to break the Law, simply to test it.
As for correct spellings of "Redds" or "Redes" both are in fact the correct spelling as they are both a description of a spawning bed.
By the way, boarders is actually "borders" as in the geographical division between two or more Political units.
As for why the Canoeists haven't renewed their access rights this year, maybe one should ask them?

Chris Season32 · Aug 5, 2009

Due to the current fragile ecosystem of our rivers (no just fish) and out of respect of those who have been working to improve it, I don't think having people paddling/rowing up and down them repeatedly (and definately not if they are designated a SSSI) is by any excuse a good idea. I don't think Griff or the producers thought enough about the full impact of their script beforehand.

"And it is not yet a criminal act to speak ones mind about changes in the law Peter". It is if a court construes that the purpose of the statement was to incite or otherwise encourage the infingement of Bylaws, Act of law, or public order. Should the paddling community act on Griff's/BBC's comments, the outcome of any court case will likely rule against the defendant.

The bad one · Aug 5, 2009

upnorth said:
I actually have a good knowledge of canoeing as in my youth I actually practiced it on my local rivers, after proper intial training in a local swimming pool, so I do know that the etiquette of canoeing obliges one to avoid spawning beds! It also makes the point not to ground one's canoe in shallow water, but to get out and walk.
So when talking gibberish, check up on facts!
I do know that some canoeists will break these rules but then many anglers do the same with the rules of angling and the Law.
And it is not yet a criminal act to speak ones mind about changes in the law Peter, I do not think that what Griff said was in any means an invitation to canoeists to break the Law, simply to test it.
As for correct spellings of "Redds" or "Redes" both are in fact the correct spelling as they are both a description of a spawning bed.
By the way, boarders is actually "borders" as in the geographical division between two or more Political units.
As for why the Canoeists haven't renewed their access rights this year, maybe one should ask them?

You just don't, like all paddlers, get it, do you...... "so I do know that the etiquette of canoeing obliges one to avoid spawning beds!" So your average numpty paddler know what a spawning redd looks like do they? And they know at what time of year each and every species of fish spawns do they in the rivers they turn up to trespass on? You're having a laugh, they just couldn't give a flying toss, they plough, wade and drag through them regadless.
As I know from bitter experience having seen them do it in numbers this year whilst out bailiffing on 3 rivers from Hertfordshire to Lancashire.
"As for why the Canoeists haven't renewed their access rights this year, maybe one should ask them?"
They have been asked and have failed to give any response to the question.

alan whittington · Aug 5, 2009

RE:- not paddling through spawning redds,the canoeists that thrash and bash their way through these shallows are uneducated in the ways of the river,just as inexperienced anglers are,the thing is the damage caused by the men in canoes is frightening even if they only disturbed fish from these redds,go onto the banks of the Wye during the spring and summer,the M25 has less traffic.
As for asking these boaters why they havnt renewed their access agreements surely none of us are so stupid that we cant see why.

DZ · Aug 6, 2009

....go onto the banks of the Wye during the spring and summer said:
Then how come the Wye is one of the most prolific coarse fish rivers in Britain?

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