Big Smelly bait vs small bait

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Aug 21, 2009

In flooded conditions or when there is a foot or so on the river and some colour to the water, it's typical to fish a big smelly bait such as boily/pellet wrapped in paste.

Why is it thought more effective to fish a small bait such as tiny pellets, single grain of corn or caster/hemp when the river is low and clear?

Surely a large smelly bait is still attractive to a barbel when the water is clear????

What are your thoughts and experiences?

preston96 · Aug 21, 2009

Mr. Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) said:
In flooded conditions or when there is a foot or so on the river and some colour to the water, it's typical to fish a big smelly bait such as boily/pellet wrapped in paste.

Why is it thought more effective to fish a small bait such as tiny pellets, single grain of corn or caster/hemp when the river is low and clear?

Surely a large smelly bait is still attractive to a barbel when the water is clear????

What are your thoughts and experiences?

Tut Tut CC you dare to question the holy barble!!

klik2change · Aug 21, 2009

It seems likely that barbel feed much more heavily when the river is up, so when it's low the assumption is that they need to be tempted to feed, with smaller tastier baits. That's the traditional thinking as I understand it. It is certainly the way it is for me on the trent. However, I have only caught barbel on the trent so it may be different on smaller rivers. I tried a few times on the river Hull when I lived in Hull. Apparently they only appeared when the river was high.

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Aug 21, 2009

Maybe it's beacuse a big smelly bait is usually accompanied by a big pointy hook - which is more visible in clear conditions???

What if we fished a big smelly bait on a small pointy hook? It might not be as effective hooking, but you don't get hook ups without the bites in the first place.

klik2change · Aug 22, 2009

Personally I fish 15 mm boilies with a size ten hook. I have tried size 12 but a knotless knot is beyond the limited dexterity of my sausage fingers. Tens don't seem very large to me, though they are still somewhat pointy...! I very, very rarely lose a fish after getting a bite, [apart from getting snagged]. I can only remember once in the last few years, it was a barbel, on the trent. I will use 12s [palomar knot] for maggots or casters though.

peter crabtree · Aug 22, 2009

In low clear conditions I find casters the best bait. I Superglue one rubber and one real caster on a hair and fish over a bed of loose casters.
Coloured and high water,big smelly single bait.

Graham Whatmore · Aug 22, 2009

It is true - in most cases - but why this should be only the fish can answer. I had a session on a clear Teme a couple of seasons ago and couldn't buy a bite on a 14mm pellet but as soon as I swapped it for an 8mm and a size 16 hook I was into fish landing four but losing three which may or may not be blamed on the hook size.

Maggots or better still caster work brilliantly in clear conditions on the rivers I have fished but I rarely go above a size 14 hook when fishing them, it feels right somehow whereas a size 12 or bigger just wouldn't feel right.

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Aug 22, 2009

peter crabtree said:
In low clear conditions I find casters the best bait. I Superglue one rubber and one real caster on a hair and fish over a bed of loose casters.
Coloured and high water,big smelly single bait.

Yes, BUT WHY?

Why not fish a big smelly bait in the clear conditions?

Why do you change to smaller baits?

peter crabtree · Aug 22, 2009

I'm not saying you cant use a big bait,you can,but it seems to me after many sessions that caster is king for barbel at this time of year.Maybe it looks like a natural food. A question I ask is, what does a barbel think a big pellet,meat cube or boilie is? They dont resemble any natural food. In winter flood conditions, I dont think they care what it is, they are simply hungry.

tigger · Aug 22, 2009

peter crabtree said:
I'm not saying you cant use a big bait,you can,but it seems to me after many sessions that caster is king for barbel at this time of year.Maybe it looks like a natural food. A question I ask is, what does a barbel think a big pellet,meat cube or boilie is? They dont resemble any natural food. In winter flood conditions, I dont think they care what it is, they are simply hungry.

A donkey choker looks a bit like a slug. Fish are oppertunists and will grab anything that looks like it might be edible and fire it out if it insn't. I had two doubles a few weeks back on large pellets in prety much drought conditions. It was during the middle of the night though when they seem to feed more confidently.

Stealph Viper · Aug 22, 2009

Try 2 x 6mm boilies (Hair Rigged), it is still a big smelly bait, but you should get away with using a smaller hook.
You could use 2 x 8mm (Hair Rigged)boilies and use a bigger hook, wrap them and the hook, in paste of the same flavour.
Perhaps it is just that on low, clear waters, the fish have more chance of finding a smaller bait, and on higher, faster, murky waters, the smelly large bait is to help the fish find the bait easier.

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Aug 22, 2009

SV, I think you missed my point. I'm not looking for advice on what baits to fish.

It is 'typical' to fish a big smelly bait when the RIVER is up and coloured - which is an understandable approach. The aim is to make it easy for a fish to find the bait in higher flow poor visibility.

What I am questioning is the 'typical' approach of using smaller baits during low, clear conditions on RIVERS.

Why not stick to the big smelly bait?

PS I highlighted RIVERS because I thought you were a still water angler.

Mark Hewitt · Aug 22, 2009

Sorry Matt,

I can't help you............

I never fish for Barbel, or on rivers, or with bait.

Did have a great poo this morning though, the best type............ one push, clean break off, and drew an 'ace' on first wipe!!

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Aug 22, 2009

Thanks Mark

Mark Hewitt · Aug 22, 2009

.....Ok Matt

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Aug 22, 2009

OK Mark...............

Paul Morley · Aug 22, 2009

Charmin. Nearly all 'catching' anglers this season are down to 6mm baits or elipse etc, the biggest I'll use is 12mm (quite subtle cc moore boilies) and typically those 8mm Sonu 'pellet o' affairs. If I could afford casters I would do that, but there have been no daytime barbel anyhow. I don't think they see the hook, their eyes are positioned incorrectly. They might feel it or detect the weight or limited movement of bait, so it's no bigger than a 10 til dark. These choices make me feel confident, which is important, just as changing to a big smelly bait does when the conditions change. Whenever that will be!!

Stealph Viper · Aug 22, 2009

Mr. Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) said:
SV, I think you missed my point. I'm not looking for advice on what baits to fish.

It is 'typical' to fish a big smelly bait when the RIVER is up and coloured - which is an understandable approach. The aim is to make it easy for a fish to find the bait in higher flow poor visibility.

What I am questioning is the 'typical' approach of using smaller baits during low, clear conditions on RIVERS.

Why not stick to the big smelly bait?

PS I highlighted RIVERS because I thought you were a still water angler.

Sorry Matt,

I wasn't trying to tell you what baits to fish, i was trying to point out that you could still use larger baits in Low, clear conditions.

As for the typical use of smaller baits, the reasoning could be that they can get away with smaller baits, as the fish can easily find a smaller bait in these conditions.

I used to fish rivers about 10 years ago on the River Dane in Cheshire, for Chub on the main, as there wasn't any Barbel on the stretches i fished, and i used to use Chunks of raw stewing steak, hair rigged to a size 8 Kamasan B175 hook and had some great times catching Chub on them.

The bad one · Aug 23, 2009

Matt doesn't matter at all to me, medium 12-14 mm all the time. High, low, no water, catches most times if the fish are in your swim. If the fish arn't in your swim you're never going to catch them.

There is one correlated fact in my catches and that's fish move about more when there's water on. And as a result of this, freebies travel further and will draw the fish to you.

When low, choice of swim selection is critical, pick the wrong'en and you'll blank!

Bluenose · Aug 23, 2009

There is also the train of thought that says a fish (or any animal) will take advantage of the easiest food source that offers it maximum energy/nutrition for minimum effort so it should in theory gobble up anything that is easily accessible in any conditions. However we know that is not always the case.

I think that big baits may not work as well in low conditions in those areas that see a fair bit of angling pressure, in low water they stand out more and fish may view them with suspicion or associate them with danger!

Big Smelly bait vs small bait

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