Marsden's Musings, or why Fishing Forums are becoming less popular

I would strongly recommend those who contribute to angling forums on the web, to read and digest carefully our Graham's comments on "website trolls" in the "Marsden's Musings" column - Coarse Fisherman, September issue.

Want to know what a "website troll" is?

According to Graham they are not those who post exchanges that develop into controversial threads. This is normal healthy debate that no-one objects to.

Graham is referring to the threads that get thrown completely off track and then develop into nothing more than a tirade of "personal abuse as the protagonists do battle - all at the expense of the majority of readers who were originally enjoying the thread for the interest and information it was providing."

Graham goes on to say: "There are small elements of idiots that thrive on this; it's the usual names that appear on the controversial threads. You see one of the known names appear (rarely by their real names by the way) and you just know that it won't be long before the next one in the gang will make an appearance to add more fuel to the fire."

Graham even mention how some of these characters create two psuedonyms and slag off each other's doppelganger!

The use of pseudonyms has been a bee in my bonnet for years now. I am not getting at people like The Monk, Cakey or Chevin who have used such names as pen names for their articles for many year. We all know who they are and let's leave it at that.

The people I refer to are those disturbing trolls who appear from nowhere, first of all giving the impression that they know everything about fishing, when in fact they know next to nothing. This soon becomes apparent in their lack of basic knowledge of the sport. They are soon actually insulting people, and no matter how many hints they may get, they take no notice whatsoever.

As regards barbel anglers, one only has to look at other websites specialising in this form of fishing to note the disgusting language, the "anglers" foulmouthing each other off, and the quite honestly peurile subjects that are thrown around. All from behind pseudonyms of course. I even worry about sister websites such as "Fly Forums where over 90% of the members use pseudonyms. I've said it before and I will say it again:

If you can't put up, shut up!

Quite honestly we can all do without this sort of behavoir.

And I strongly suggest that you buy a copy of Coarse Fisherman and read this article.

Personally I love a good, interesting, intelligent debate. But the minute one of the trolls comes on who obviously knows nothing of the subject being discussed, with his/hers inane comments, I am turned off.

And of course so are many many others. I have recently had a number of people sending me PMs of what they can do to prevent the trolls.

I think the only thing we can do is to ignore them. We don't have to suffer fools, do we?

Ron,

Sometimes it is the Post itself that invites people to attack it.

I am almost certain that Ron The Hat Clay is not your real name and is a nick name or a pseudonym, i'm refering to "The Hat" and not "Ron Clay".

I have seen some of your threads were you refer to Carp anglers that just chuck out a static bait and if they sit there long enough will inevitably catch a fish as lacking skill, again you are inviting the Carp anglers to respond to that by defending their own style of fishing.

I myself have made light of what was for someone else a serious thread, i have been the recipient of several personal attacks on issue's i didn't understand.
I would hate to be a new member coming on here and trying to fit in to the Clique that some of the Forum Members have.

If i know less about fishing than you, i would expect to learn from you if i could, but alas, to many great anglers find it hard to relate to beginners to the sport and probably unknowingly end up making them feel small and unimportant.

What makes a truly great angler????

How is someone new to fishing supposed to contribute to that??

If i'm classified as a troll because i don't agree with your opinion or take on a subject then so be it, but i am never personally abusive to anyone on the FM site.
If i have done wrong, i always apologise and move on.


I'm sorry Ron, but some people invite trouble through there postings, and i do feel that on occasion that you are one of them, you quite often disregard others peoples angling as, skillless, or amatuerish.
I'm sure you're a great angler, and probably a very nice person, but you have a knack of getting under peoples skin.

I have tattoo's and a shaved head, i listen to loud music, but in one of your threads you commented on idiots with tattoo's, shaved heads etc and generalised a whole group of people because of 1 idiot. But i didn't respond to it, even though i didn't like what you had wrote, (something to do with driving) if i recall correctly.

Am i a Troll? I don't believe so, others may disagree, but as long as i don't abuse them, does it really matter??

Oh Ron is very controversial!

His nickname used to be Ron (troversial) Clay when I first joined.

He insulted every driver in Lincolnshire at one time and lived in fear of his life in case farmers with tractors were on the look out for a tatty old Citroen Saxo called Rose.

Gradually, you will learn to take Ron with a large cupful of salt.

I would also agree with what Stealth Viper says. Sometimes a thread invites an "attack" ...although I hate the word "attack". I have to also agree that
you Ron, do come out with some very antagonistic comments and again as Stealth Viper says your continued abuse towards Carp anglers is a perfect example.
You may have noticed that if I happen across a thread were you do this I will generally give you stick back...generally towards Trout although I always try
to keep the post constructive and give reasons to explain my rational...even if it may not always be correct.

I get the feeling you try to be controversial which is no bad thing, I think web sites need this or it all becomes a bit samey plus the banter can be good fun.
However if you go out of your way to be controversial then don't complain when people give you a rough ride.

My post just disappeared with a little "peep".

Have I just been moderated?

Here's a bit of it...

KLIK2CHANGE’s vital statistics

Shaved head P

Tattoos x

Loud music P [classical and 1960s acid rock]

[In a whisper... Improper use of the apostrophe x]

I remember Ron[troversial] as well. The tractor drivers in Lincolnshire are STILL on the lookout for him, including all the Polish and Portuguese ones…. They know he’s changed his car, by the way.

Agree with most of what you say Ron but have to agree with SV it can sometimes be a case of pot calling kettle. A certain habit of yours(and others) to make political content when its not in the nature of the thread can get me retaliating. But generally there is good content and little out and out slagging on FM.

Well I am amazed.

Where are some of you getting the impression that I am having a go at SV? I was only re-iterating Graham Marsden's Coarse Fisherman article because I thought it would make a good thread for FM.

I have never attacked bona fida carp anglers. I may have had a go at "Bivvy Trolls" and modern carp angling methods of course, but so has **** Walker, Graham Marsden and Chris Yates.

As regards shaven heads, baseball caps and tattoos? Well one of my closest friends wears a basball cap, has a shaven head and sports quite a few tattoos. We often have a laugh about it. People have got to be able to recognise when I have my tongue firmly in my cheek.

Oh and we often get together and listen to loud music - opera of course?

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Where are some of you getting the impression that I am having a go at SV?

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I don't actually think that anyone had the impression that you were having a go at me, well not from what i read in their postings.
More importantly Ron, i don't think you are having a go at me.

What got me about the article was there was a gang on FM.

I must say that I agree with what Ron says to a certain extent, although I have yet to read Graham's article.

Some people post and behave in a way they would never dream of doing in person, a bit like the idiots who get road rage and drive like nutters as soon as they get behind the wheel of a car.

Now you have blown my image Ron, here's me doing my level best to create an image of culture and sophistication. And you go and let the cat out of the bag by describing me as a shaven headed, tattooed, baseball cap wearing yobbo.

Seriously though, it's so easy to misinterpret what is written. Some people have a wicked sense of humour, and others just don't know where to draw the line.

I think it's a very tricky balancing act, easy to do on the bank, or in the pub when you're eye to eye. Tone of ''voice'' reveals all.

Oh, and for the record, I agree with most of what is written in Grahams article, as I do that your comments were made tongue in cheek.

Specihunter ( the Korum Kid) said:

What got me about the article was there was a gang on FM.

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Oh there is Speci.....and you've met some of us!!! Hard nuts aren't we!!! Well nuts anyway!

Yes,Posh is back from Bulgaria ready to dazzle you with his cyrillic.

Ron, haven't opened my CF yet...I'll be straight to the Great Man's musings.

not that kind of gang posh .

welcome back Paul, apparently the gangs not all here!!

It always surprises me that these kinds of people are allowed the license they get on internet forums. Surely ISP numbers make it relatively easy to eliminate them?

And how very topical is the comment in this month's "Trout Fisherman" by none other than Peter Cockwill, who writing of a nice letter from a 90 year old angler praising his column, which also included a painting of a trout, says:

"Now that's so much nicer than the anonymous sniping comments which appear on forums and I guess shows the difference between a true gentleman who loves the sport and some five minute wonder who knows nothing."

Here here Peter, and I'll bet I know which forum he means. Virtually all the members there use rather disturbing non-de-plumes!

It shows that more and more people, including the well known are getting pi$$ed off with people who are afraid to reveal their real names.

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

Oh and by the way, my name is Ronald Edward Clay. The nickname "The Hat" was Graham's idea, not mine.

If you want, I'll display a copy of my passport.

Ron you old devil - hooked another one I see - good bait sir

Welcome back Poshers - hope you had a good holiday - any good port or cheeses out there?

To quaote a certain Pail Gadd
"Do you wanna be in my gang,my gang, my gang?"

Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC} said:

It always surprises me that these kinds of people are allowed the license they get on internet forums. Surely ISP numbers make it relatively easy to eliminate them?

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It does and it is used on here now.

Any trouble makers, two yellow cards, then a red card and off! If it's really serious, off permanently.

It's got to be strong stuff though.




Ronald Edward Clay, eh? So, you share the "Ed" bit with a certain Scouser. Hmmmmm!

Ron The Hat Clay said:

---snip---
It shows that more and more people, including the well known are getting pi$$ed off with people who are afraid to reveal their real names.

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Well for the record my name is Chris Dady should you be short of someone to stalk.
Not that it makes the slightest difference as you will not have heard of me. Anonymity is only despised by those who choose not to use it.

I really don't see the obsession with real name some people have. I have always used my real name on most sites but really how does that help anyone in any way. Most of the people visiting a site would not know me if i stood on there foot in the tube so how does it make a difference??