Graham Marsden
Editor Emeritus
Have a read of Sean Meeghan's blog and let's discuss the points that Sean raises about maggot fishing for barbel. Should make for an interesting discussion.
Barbel on Maggot and Caster
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Paul H
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Coincidently I was thinking of getting out the maggot feeders this weekend on the Derwent, I normally fish 6 or 8lb mono on a paternoster set up and watch for drop-backs on a lightish quiver tip.
I have had barbel to just over 10lb on a double red maggot hookbait - sometimes I use a rubber maggot over the hook shank mag-aligner style.
I don't think there are many better ways of finding out what the potential is on an unknown stretch of river.
After sean's comments about being a very visual bait I may stick a pellet or two in the feeder with the maggots to give off a scent trail as well.
I have had barbel to just over 10lb on a double red maggot hookbait - sometimes I use a rubber maggot over the hook shank mag-aligner style.
I don't think there are many better ways of finding out what the potential is on an unknown stretch of river.
After sean's comments about being a very visual bait I may stick a pellet or two in the feeder with the maggots to give off a scent trail as well.
darrengeorge
Well-known member
Interesting!
When conditions are less than favourable, my bait would either be readily digested in order to encourage repeat visits - or even settled persistent feeding spells, or the only food item in the water would be the hookbait. That is how I fish, not sure if others would agree?
Another thought when using bait's such as pellet, might be to always feed less pellets than the number of barbel present in the swim...
When conditions are less than favourable, my bait would either be readily digested in order to encourage repeat visits - or even settled persistent feeding spells, or the only food item in the water would be the hookbait. That is how I fish, not sure if others would agree?
Another thought when using bait's such as pellet, might be to always feed less pellets than the number of barbel present in the swim...
I have always thought that the first approach should always be little feed, maybe the flavour trail from a feeder ishould be enough.
As for making sure I feed less pellets than barbel in the swim,chance would be a fine thing, on the Trent!!
As for making sure I feed less pellets than barbel in the swim,chance would be a fine thing, on the Trent!!
Sean Meeghan
Well-known member
Go easy on me folks!
I won't be able to reply to any comments for a week as I'm just about to head off to Cornwall, but here are a couple of further thoughts.
When pellet fishing I agree with Darren - keep the quantities low.
When maggot fishing I don't think that quantity matters as much and I tend to keep dropping in a feeder every 10 to 15 minutes.
On maggot being a visual bait: I've watched barbel and chub when I've been feeding maggot in clear water. The chub cotton on quickly and take the maggots on the drop. The barbel don't seem to realise what's going on (poorer eyesight?) until either the chub start rooting around on the bottom disturbing silt or you put a few pellets in. This applies to caster too.
When fishing maggot it's quite common not to get traditional 3ft twitches and whilst I don't strike at every indication I do strike at positive ones. If you don't get the 3ft twich the hook is almost always in the top lip, dead center.
I won't be able to reply to any comments for a week as I'm just about to head off to Cornwall, but here are a couple of further thoughts.
When pellet fishing I agree with Darren - keep the quantities low.
When maggot fishing I don't think that quantity matters as much and I tend to keep dropping in a feeder every 10 to 15 minutes.
On maggot being a visual bait: I've watched barbel and chub when I've been feeding maggot in clear water. The chub cotton on quickly and take the maggots on the drop. The barbel don't seem to realise what's going on (poorer eyesight?) until either the chub start rooting around on the bottom disturbing silt or you put a few pellets in. This applies to caster too.
When fishing maggot it's quite common not to get traditional 3ft twitches and whilst I don't strike at every indication I do strike at positive ones. If you don't get the 3ft twich the hook is almost always in the top lip, dead center.
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darrengeorge
Well-known member
Interesting observations, Sean.
Do you ever fish hemp and maggot / caster, or do you keep it just to maggot / caster with a few pellets?
---------- Post added at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------
Fred, the 'little feed' method certainly works doesn't it!
I got bored on the lower severn though, figured how do you learn anything if you keep doing the same thing over and over. Reminds me of a quote my Mrs. told me once 'definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results'! So I've gone the other way to see what happens.... fill it in!!
Just one chub last night though
Do you ever fish hemp and maggot / caster, or do you keep it just to maggot / caster with a few pellets?
---------- Post added at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------
Fred, the 'little feed' method certainly works doesn't it!
I got bored on the lower severn though, figured how do you learn anything if you keep doing the same thing over and over. Reminds me of a quote my Mrs. told me once 'definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results'! So I've gone the other way to see what happens.... fill it in!!
Just one chub last night though
Sean Meeghan
Well-known member
I used to fish pigeon conditioner a lot with caster and it worked well. In recent seasons I've tended to use pellet, but it is getting less effective and I'm thinking of returning to the pigeon conditioner.
Bye bye I'm off now!
Bye bye I'm off now!
Darren, i've never been a heap it in angler, the little and often, or just the feeder full of soaked pellet or "groundbait",or the BIG chunk of Spam, works for me.
I've tried the gallon of hemp,pellet and caster approach, never worked for me, does for others though.
Had my second trip ever down to the Lower the other weekend for an overnighter, not disimilar to the Trent, fished the same way too!
I've tried the gallon of hemp,pellet and caster approach, never worked for me, does for others though.
Had my second trip ever down to the Lower the other weekend for an overnighter, not disimilar to the Trent, fished the same way too!
darrengeorge
Well-known member
I too haven't managed to make gallon of hemp and caster work, something I will continue to play with though.
Hope you didn't have your bivvy and bedchair on your overnighter
Right, I better do some work, interesting topic though, will keep half an eye on this one...
Hope you didn't have your bivvy and bedchair on your overnighter
Right, I better do some work, interesting topic though, will keep half an eye on this one...
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I've only ever caught two barbel on maggots. One of 6 inch in lenght when feeder fishing on the ribble 26 years ago when you didn't really ever hear of barbs's even being in there and another fish of 4lb early this year when trotting a small local river and catching lots of chub. I only started to target Barbel 3 years ago and have only used corn, pellets and meat as my hook bait. I've been lucky and my biggest to date is 14lb 8ounce caught on a 14mm pellet which in my experience is the king of barbel nosh. I think to target barbel using maggot as with any fish on a river you would need to keep plenty of maggots going in on a regular basis so the fish stay interested and you attract more fish from downstream as maggots get washed down in the current. I reckon the more fish you attract to your swim by constant feeding of maggots the higher the chance of barbel turning up to join in on the banquet. As Sean Meaghan said adding some smelly baits such as pellets and other baits such as corn that sink and stay on the bottom rather than just float off downstream has got to help to get the barb's feeding in your swim.
Certainly not Darren, I don't own either
Matthew White
Well-known member
I have never fished maggot for barbel yet, but will certainly be giving it a go. I think the amount of pellet which is going into my stretch calls for me to try something different.
Why don't you get the 3 foot twitch when maggot fishing? Why do different baits give different bites/indications?
I like the tip about using the catapult to feed over the top of the feeder because the maggots travel further down the swim.
Does the river have to be totally clear for maggot to work?
Matt
Why don't you get the 3 foot twitch when maggot fishing? Why do different baits give different bites/indications?
I like the tip about using the catapult to feed over the top of the feeder because the maggots travel further down the swim.
Does the river have to be totally clear for maggot to work?
Matt
darrengeorge
Well-known member
One thing I remember someone saying on a different forum, was that they experimented with maggot and hemp for a while, and found that when pellet was introduced, the fish instantly zero'd in on the pellet and ignored the maggot hookbait. This was on the middle severn where they see a lot of pellet..
Fred Crouch mentioned barbel becoming very single minded regards food in 'Understanding Barbel' (still a great read). Rather than, as with humans, seeking out variety (reference multi coloured sweets, for example), they actually tune in to a food source. I think Fred wrote that his theory was the fish were 'programmed' to make use of a food source while it was available.
Food for thought perhaps...
Matthew,
As mentioned earlier, I'm not great with particles and barbel, but no, the river doesn't have to be clear for them to work. It's just that other baits such as meat, pellet and boilie seem more effective in these conditions - probably easier to find.
The different bites is caused by the different feeding response. When using large baits such as pellet, the fish take a couple of mouthfuls then swim downstream to chew. With particles such as maggot, they will stay for much longer periods - often passing the food out the back as they are eating it at the front. Because they are confidently feeding without moving off downstream, bites are far more subtle than the 3footer...
Fred Crouch mentioned barbel becoming very single minded regards food in 'Understanding Barbel' (still a great read). Rather than, as with humans, seeking out variety (reference multi coloured sweets, for example), they actually tune in to a food source. I think Fred wrote that his theory was the fish were 'programmed' to make use of a food source while it was available.
Food for thought perhaps...
Matthew,
As mentioned earlier, I'm not great with particles and barbel, but no, the river doesn't have to be clear for them to work. It's just that other baits such as meat, pellet and boilie seem more effective in these conditions - probably easier to find.
The different bites is caused by the different feeding response. When using large baits such as pellet, the fish take a couple of mouthfuls then swim downstream to chew. With particles such as maggot, they will stay for much longer periods - often passing the food out the back as they are eating it at the front. Because they are confidently feeding without moving off downstream, bites are far more subtle than the 3footer...
Matthew White
Well-known member
Cheers Darrengeorge. In this months Coarse Angling Today magazine Stef Horak says something along the lines of that if you fish one rod with casters and hemp and another with pellet then the caster and hemp become less effective. The fish become cagey because of the smell of the pellet. But if no pellet is present then the fish go crazy for the particles.
Matt
Matt
darrengeorge
Well-known member
That's interesting, I shall have to have a look at that when I get my copy!
Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)
Moderator
Interesting.
There seems to be a common theme regarding the "dominance" of pellet in terms of stimulating feeding. Given that, I assume, we are all feeding with different brands/flavourings of pellet it must be a common base mix for the pellet and the appearance and "noise" of the feed. Certainly most of my barbel have come on pellet or boilie this season....I've had a couple on maggot...always including one artificial..but on the waters I predominantly fish maggot eventually attracts minnows and small eels in summer.
The lesser visual impact of maggot, in barbel terms, has also got me thinking...and I will try this grub juice stuff. I've read Bob Roberts comments on the stuff which are positive..any others had thoughts.
There seems to be a common theme regarding the "dominance" of pellet in terms of stimulating feeding. Given that, I assume, we are all feeding with different brands/flavourings of pellet it must be a common base mix for the pellet and the appearance and "noise" of the feed. Certainly most of my barbel have come on pellet or boilie this season....I've had a couple on maggot...always including one artificial..but on the waters I predominantly fish maggot eventually attracts minnows and small eels in summer.
The lesser visual impact of maggot, in barbel terms, has also got me thinking...and I will try this grub juice stuff. I've read Bob Roberts comments on the stuff which are positive..any others had thoughts.
Paul H
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I may try a maggot and hemp mix this weekend with a decent sized blockend feeder, I'm really looking forward to it now. Off to buy two pints of reds on my way home at 4pm.
stuartpengs
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I take the majority of my barbel on maggot but then I usually trot for them some times I feed a little hemp if I think it's appropriate. What I do though is to periodically make sure I get some on the bottom by putting a couple of bait droppers worth of maggots in every now and then on top of the regular feeding it does seem to pay off
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
Maggots and to a lesser extent caster (due to cost) have probably caught more barbel than any other single bait and thats because they work - well. In the days of river matchfishing the match angler hardly ever used anything else and they probably caught more barbel than any barbel angler specialist. They work well in clear conditions too when pellets may be ignored and I have thanked the humble maggot many a match day on the Severn, Trent and Avon.
When things are tough if you stick a maggot feeder on the chances are you will catch one because barbel absolutely love maggots, the more the better. A standard approach on the Severn was to cast a feeder full every minute to start off and this got the fish feeding and when the bites came you left it in a bit longer but never more than three or four minutes before recasting. The little and often approach was fine on the float but it was unusual to go with less than four pints if you went on the Severn after barbel and most anglers took a gallon as a matter of course and you rarely had much left. One thing barbel love doing when they are competing is picking up the feeder as it hits the bottom (or even before) and shaking the maggots out, you get very frustrated when you get those rod wrenching wrap rounds and nothing on the end when you strike.
On the Teme caster and hemp worked better than maggot and even today the best bait on the Teme is caster if you want those barbel and chub to get feeding.
When things are tough if you stick a maggot feeder on the chances are you will catch one because barbel absolutely love maggots, the more the better. A standard approach on the Severn was to cast a feeder full every minute to start off and this got the fish feeding and when the bites came you left it in a bit longer but never more than three or four minutes before recasting. The little and often approach was fine on the float but it was unusual to go with less than four pints if you went on the Severn after barbel and most anglers took a gallon as a matter of course and you rarely had much left. One thing barbel love doing when they are competing is picking up the feeder as it hits the bottom (or even before) and shaking the maggots out, you get very frustrated when you get those rod wrenching wrap rounds and nothing on the end when you strike.
On the Teme caster and hemp worked better than maggot and even today the best bait on the Teme is caster if you want those barbel and chub to get feeding.
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Stealph Viper
Well-known member
Perhaps, that is the theme for why Maggot and Pellets differ, as you said, matchmen regularly took Barbel on Maggots, but, the Specimen Hunters use Pellets to target Specimen Fish.
That's not to say that Maggot won't catch Specimen Barbel, or Pellet catch Smaller Barbel, but the Pellet is definitely more Selective.
So, when you go Barbel fishing you may have to think, do i want Quantity or Quality.
That's not to say that Maggot won't catch Specimen Barbel, or Pellet catch Smaller Barbel, but the Pellet is definitely more Selective.
So, when you go Barbel fishing you may have to think, do i want Quantity or Quality.