Knotless hairs with Kryston Silkworm

This is not a major problem as I am still hooking and landing fish but on occasion(more than I really want)I am losing fish some minutes after hooking when I would least expect it to happen...

I am using 10lb Kryston Silkworm,Korda Kurv shank hooks size 4 and the knotless knot to give the hair.The hair length is about 25mm and I am winding the Silkworm around the shank 7 turns which may well be insufficient as more turns would keep the hair closer to the hook shank and improve hooking(?).
I am of the opinion that a hair attached to the bend of the hook(and therefore directly below the hook)would be far better as the hook would be sucked in more readily(?) but I can appreciate the Knotless Knot for its ease of tying etc....I just wonder if the fish is sucking in the hook properly ....
Perhaps a longer hair might help....?

Bait is invariably a boilie 12/14mm but sometimes a cork ball covered in paste is used.

Bites are very positive with most being screaming runs without any previous warning and hooking initially never fails,but as I say fish come off...........

Any comments from users of similar set-ups where the K Knot is used would be most welcome...I think I may well be doing something badly that needs tweaking!

Thanks!

try abit of shrink tubing before the hook lenth to the top of hook change the angle

Hi Tee Cee. Tie your 7 turns down the shank then do 3 turns under the hair. This will kick it out a little.
Also, peel back a cm of the Silkworm by the eye of the hook. This will make your hook have more movement to get a better hold.

Are you using a heavy enough weight and is it fixed or running? Try upping the weight and fixing it if not.

Are you striking/setting the hook into the fish? as it may be that the hook is not be going home properly.

Shine On You Crazy Diamond said:

Also, peel back a cm of the Silkworm by the eye of the hook.

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Silworm is a braid, not a coated one.

My suggestion would be to look at the hook hold on the fish that you are catching and see if that gives you any clues. If your hooking them in the edge of the lip you might want to consider making your hooklength a bit longer - this might also explain why some come off during the fight as the hook doesn't have a proper hold.

If your using a fixed lead the fish might also be using this to shake the hook out of position (as seen in the korda dvds) so maybe try a running rig on one rod and see how that fares.

lets see a picture of a rig please

Frothey said:

Silworm is a braid, not a coated one.

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oops ... I was thinking of Mantis

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

I think you can peel a little of that one to make it more subtle

Shine On You Crazy Diamond said:

Hi Tee Cee. Tie your 7 turns down the shank then do 3 turns under the hair. This will kick it out a little.
Also, peel back a cm of the Silkworm by the eye of the hook. This will make your hook have more movement to get a better hold.

Click to expand...

No matter! You still gave the correct answer

size 4 hook? crikey especially for a curved hook. Try an 8, this would be more balanced with the rig, plus smaller hooks tend to 'stick' a bit better and give stronger hook holds. Try messing around with the length of the hair too, subtle differences can make all the difference.

---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

p.s. try changing the length of the rig too longer/shorter and check your hooks are plenty sharp- if they are blunt they will not dig in well and therefore give a very weak hookhold. get some new hooks if this is the case.

Thanks for the replies...some food for thought....

First of all the rig:the set-up I use is more to do with the swim and its location than anything else.I am fishing into a swim under an overhanging tree with the trunk about 5/6feet above the water.I can reach this with an underarm cast(more a pendulum swing)but any attempt to go beyond a certain point in the swing will land me in the tree!
Consequently I am using mono with a free running heavyish bomb(which gives the weight to reach the area under the tree)resting on a rubber bead which is then tied to the silkworm pre-tied hook length via a swivel with the bead resting on the swivel.The hooklength is around 10/12"-this needs to be short as any longer means it could hit the water on the underarm cast(not easy to explain!!)
Any other setup has proven to give problems because of the casting....

Bites as Ive said are massive and without warning-just instant line stripping from the reel via the Baitrunner with the rod sometimes moving forward in the rest so its not so much a strike as just tightening into the fish(wildies up to 10lb and mirrors up to 20lb but more often 10/15lb).
Many times its a case of hold on tight as branches from the tree trail into the water and other snags exist beyond the tree!
Lastly,the swim is aound 3' deep in summer but because of the lack of rain its more like 2' at present.
Today I landed one fish and lost one-bites both similar and the one landed was hooked in the corner of the mouth..
Hope this explains the situation!!

hmmm dont be afraid to try a shorter hooklength, for me 10-12in. on a carp rig is pretty long! I go down to 3in. in some cases. I'd say try a small inline lead, this will reduce possible tangles a bit.

what could really help you is pva foam- wrapped around the hook shank, it will stop the hook fouling from the tree, keep the rig tangle free and presented nicely to the fish.

perhaps if possible try a side cast so the angle of the cast can be reduced, and the rig can be sent even further under the braches.

Jonnie......thanks for that!
The inline lead sounds a good idea and I will try very short hooklengths to see if it improves matters.I may also try a smaller boilie...
Unfortunately a side cast is impossible as I'm casting into a'hole'formed by tree above and to one side and the bank on the other-its very tight but thats why I love it!
Hook size-a size 4 is big(not by design)but because of having to hold the fish from the snags.......

Shine-o-y-Crazy Diamond-you suggests adding 3 turns under the hair"so that it sits away from the hook a bit more"........I am NOT saying you are wrong as you obviously catch fish this way BUT I still cannot get my head around this.Surely the hair should run down the SIDE of the hook(so the hook is'in line'with the hair)and therefore enter the fishes mouth-in a straight line?
This is why I think tying the hair to the bend of the hook(mechanically)looks as if it should work better.......perhaps I am totally wrong with this as I am no expert on the use of the hair rig!!
Some years ago I saw a sketch in a Jim Gibbinson book which showed a tiny piece of silicon tube actually holding the hair near the bend of the hook so the bait was UNDER the hook and not to the side and it 'looked' correct(mechanically).He was pretty successful so perhaps both systems work!!
However I would be pleased to hear your comments(if this thread has not reached the end of its useful life!!)
I am still learning on this so the discussion has been helpful!

Thanks again for all your comments-I have some new ideas to work on.............

Tee Cee… if I understand you correctly the problem is that you are losing them after playing them for a while ? ....if thats the case I would not get too worried about the hair, your hooking them so I don’t think that’s the root problem.

You mention its shallow (2foot), your fishing at short-range (underarm cast) your using a heavy lead and they are screaming off with it on the take, plus your having to clamp down on them to try and stop them getting into snags….This sounds like a situation that is going to put a huge amount of stress on the hook hold for anyone and some losses may be unavoidable.

However I would have suggested upping the hook size but a 4 is already a good start. You could try playing them a bit lighter. Also try a smaller lead. I don’t know how heavy your lead is but a heavy lead bouncing around on a short line in shallow water could work even a well set hook free...a lighter lead may help.

You mention the Jim Gibbinson rig with tubing…it was probably his line aligner…its interesting you mention it as that is the other thing I was going to suggest. I used it in the past on waters were the fish has soft mouths and it (seemed) to give better hookholds but there is no science behind my comment just a feeling I had at the time.
Basically its a piece of tubing slid over the shank of the hook and trapping the hair with the upper part of the hook length exiting the tube through a hole in the tubing on the point side of the hook…difficult to describe but Google it and I am sure you will see some pictures. I am not sure it will make that much difference from say an eight turn knotless knot on a size 4 but you could try it.
Finally The korda hooks you mention...I dont know if they have an inturned point but that can help hookholds too.

Anyway just some ideas…..I would try playing them a bit lighter first…

this is how my rigs look and Ive caught 99.9% of my carp on them


---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

after the no knot has been tied the Super Silk is then passed through the eye from the back of the hook which acts as the line aligner
size 6 drennen boilie hook in the picture

jim also uses a long hair, and long (12"+) hooklinks. is the 25mm the gap between the hook and bait, or the total length?

Tee-Cee said:

Shine-o-y-Crazy Diamond-you suggests adding 3 turns under the hair"so that it sits away from the hook a bit more"........Surely the hair should run down the SIDE of the hook(so the hook is'in line'with the hair)and therefore enter the fishes mouth-in a straight line?.

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It doesn't matter how the hook goes into the mouth, it's how it sit's on the way out.....

I'm sure I'll get something right one day. It just wont be on this thread

ha ha ha ....................

Shine On You Crazy Diamond said:

I'm sure I'll get something right one day. It just wont be on this thread

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nah, your not wrong about the 3 turns

Nash, Lane, Hearn. Stick that in ya pipe