Angler/Hunter what are you?

Steve Spiller · Sep 24, 2009

I'm sorry guys, but I don't buy into this generalisation that as an angler I am a hunter.

I am a coarse angler, I catch and release all of my fish. I don't 'hunt' them down with dogs, instead I tempt them to eat my bait which has a hook attached to it.

There are millions of anglers like me who enjoy angling as a hobby, pass-time or addiction. How the hell can 'we' be called hunters? Surely hunting is the basic need to provide food?

Are the anglers who targetted fish like 'Benson' hunters?
Are the match anglers who catch hundreds of pounds of carp on the pole every week hunters?
Are the millions of anglers that go fishing for peace and relaxation hunters?

This subject really bothers me, I don't agree with a load of 'toffs' on horseback chasing down a fox or stag with dogs, that IS hunting.

Your thoughts please, am I alone on this one?

Old Nick · Sep 24, 2009

If we accept that a valid definition of hunting is:

the practice of pursuing living animals (usually wildlife) for food, recreation, or trade

Then I would say all anglers are hunters, its just that we use more subtle methods than a pack of dogs! how many anglers "stalk their prey" - very much a hunting term.

Whether or not the fish is killed after the catch is irrelevant to the act of hunting, which is the pursuit of the mammal/bird/fish.

All humans are hunter gatherers, I still like to hunt (for fish), but I find it much easier to send the wife to Asda for the gathering!

Grumpy Git @ · Sep 24, 2009

I'm neither ..............................................................................................................................................................

I'm just 'chillin out'

904_cannon · Sep 24, 2009

I'm 100% with you on this Steve. Neither do I accept that the type of angling most of us, on here at least, participate in is a 'blood sport'

I have no intention of defending that statement, some will say it is, I do not!

Steve Spiller · Sep 24, 2009

Nick, I don't accept that.

How can the fact that I care for 'my' fish be irrelevant? I love them! I've had a tear in my eye when I've let a special fish go. So how can that make me a hunter? I've wrote about the moment that I said "Bye mate, thank you". I love them and care for them and want to see them swim away safely. I don't 'Hunt' them down and watch my dogs rip them to bits!

How can I be compared to someone on a horse chasing down a fox/stag/deer with dogs?

Thank you John, it's nice to know I'm not on my own.

Old Nick · Sep 24, 2009

Steve the hunting is the pursuit and catch NOT what happens afterwards.

I am sure everyone here cares for their catches and make a lot of effort to ensure the fish are returned to the water unharmed, but to catch them we have to go and find them, and that has to be hunting.

I don't see angling as a blood sport, because there shouldn't be any blood involved, but that is a different question!

Ray Roberts · Sep 25, 2009

I'm sorry Steve, but I totally disagree.

The guys who bait up and then sit behind their rods, are the hunting equivilent of trappers, who bait their traps or set their snares in order to catch their prey. Done well this form of angling is certainly as skillfull and efficient as any other, and if this is what pleases the person doing it, then as far as I'm concerned, that's just fine.

Personally I prefer to spend time trying to locate the fish, visually if posible and then target the bigger specimins. I most definately regard these fish as my prey of quarry. In most cases I return the fish unharmed, but that's my choice and rules and species permiting, I would have no qualms over taking one for the pot if I so desired. In hunting terms I would be a stalker.

The match anglers or those that prefer to fish commercials can be likened to shooters who have the game birds reared for their sport and then driven towards them, the only diference that I can think of, is that we choose to return our catches/prey alive. This of course isn't an option open to the shooters.

I certainly don't feel any sense of shame for feeling this way about my fishing and as far as I am concerned; I am a fish hunter.

supgen · Sep 25, 2009

that is quite an interesting statement, I have to say that I do like to think of myself as a hunter, and I get a great satisfaction out of catching fish for the table (not just killing fish for the bin like some stockie bashers that I've seen). I think we are lucky that we can release our target fish as and when we choose- rules dictating ofcourse.

Much in the same way a deer hunter will only kill the weakest/oldest of the herd (herd? not sure on that one) we can select the fish to kill to help the fish ecosystem it came from or atleast reduce possible damage.

and whats with the talk of blood sport? i have a few friends who hunt and know others who hunt on various forums and I know for fact that there is no blood sport or cruelty involved in it!

I would like to know if both steve and john have ever got into hunting properly, or if it is more speculative judgement.

fishing can be a number of things, and it can vary greatly, I'd say dont knock it until you've tried. I dont really agree with chasing named fish and putting them upto so much angling pressure.

seems like hunting is only hunting if your on horseback with a pack of dogs.... absolute ****.

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

Ray Roberts said:
I'm sorry Steve, but I totally disagree.

The guys who bait up and then sit behind their rods, are the hunting equivilent of trappers, who bait their traps or set their snares in order to catch their prey. Done well this form of angling is certainly as skillfull and efficient as any other, and if this is what pleases the person doing it, then as far as I'm concerned, that's just fine.

Personally I prefer to spend time trying to locate the fish, visually if posible and then target the bigger specimins. I most definately regard these fish as my prey of quarry. In most cases I return the fish unharmed, but that's my choice and rules and species permiting, I would have no qualms over taking one for the pot if I so desired. In hunting terms I would be a stalker.

The match anglers or those that prefer to fish commercials can be likened to shooters who have the game birds reared for their sport and then driven towards them, the only diference that I can think of, is that we choose to return our catches/prey alive. This of course isn't an option open to the shooters.

I certainly don't feel any sense of shame for feeling this way about my fishing and as far as I am concerned; I am a fish hunter.

bloody well said ray, spot on.

Bluenose · Sep 25, 2009

Specimen hunter anyone?

noknot · Sep 25, 2009

Ditto EC,

So what would people call stalking on a gravel pit for big Carp, or stalking Barbel, Chub or Trout on clear rivers? Surely this is the purest form of angling? Which is indeed IMO a form of hunting!

dezza · Sep 25, 2009

noknot said:
Ditto EC,

So what would people call stalking on a gravel pit for big Carp, or stalking Barbel, Chub or Trout on clear rivers? Surely this is the purest form of angling? Which is indeed IMO a form of hunting!

And angling is one of the purest forms of hunting. We hunt fish and whether we chose to knock that fish on the head and use it as food, or whether we return the fish alive to the water is not the issue. What we have done is outwit the fish in it's own environment, just as we have outwitted the pheasant or deer with the rifle. In doing so we have satisfied man's ancient hunting instinct which has been with us since the dawn of pre-history.

Who does not feel that prickle on the hairs of your neck as you stalk the chub, or watch the trout come slowly to your dry fly in anticipation of a take? These are the self same emotions felt by the ancient hunter of the woolly mammoth in the tundra or even when today you can put the crosshairs of an air rifle on a rabbit.

One of the dangers of many coarse angler's attitudes to fishing is that they can isolate themselves from the game or sea anglers who regularly keep fish to eat. There is absolutely nothing wrong with killing a fish or two for the table. I do get very impatient with people who all angelic like say: "Oh I could never kill a poor fish" and yet in the same breath they chomp a piece of steak or cod!

All people who eat meat must in my opinion be responsible for the humane slaughter of that meat.

Stealph Viper · Sep 25, 2009

I think the word "Hunter" is being used in place of the word "Killer" in to many cases.

If you were to hunt down a Tiger in the wilds of India, and then once you had tracked down your Tiger, you were to Photograph it, would that mean that you had not Hunted it down just because you let it live??

It is the Cruelty behind some sports that Appauls people.
Bull fighting for instance, the Bull could just be shot, but then the crowd wouldn't get the enjoyment of seeing it tormented before it died. (At least the Bull can be Cut up afterwards and eaten)
Fox Hunting, the Fox could be killed more humanly if it is a pest to Farmers and their livestock, but instead they choose to chase it down and then Kill it and not quickly in some cases.

Perhaps the Thread should be Hunter/Killer.

Graham Whatmore · Sep 25, 2009

Of course anglers are hunters of that there is no doubt at all and some branches of the sport kill their captures and there is no doubt about that either.

I think what Steve is saying is that he doesn't like the term 'hunters' because he associates hunting with killing but the fact is coarse angling is a form of hunting where the prey is not intentionally killed neither is it the anglers reason for doing it.

Cakey · Sep 25, 2009

Im a trapper:wh

Paul H · Sep 25, 2009

The issue seems to be with the term 'hunter' and how people interpret that word.

If you think hunting means trapping an animal then killing it or treating it badly in some way then no, most coarse anglers are not hunters, but that is not what the word means.

If you accept that the term hunting means the process of catching the fish (or whatever else) in the first place - not the release or killing bit - then we are all, without question, hunters.

Think of where else the word hunt is used - Bargain Hunt or treasure hunt for example. Hunt does not mean to kill or mistreat in any way, it means to search for something, to track something down.

Graham Marsden · Sep 25, 2009

Although I no longer shoot, I was brought up as a countryman and a hunter of animals, birds and fish.

I'm a hunter, but just of fish these days, and proud of it.

That I don't shoot any more is not a choice founded on anything to do with ethics but a simple matter of a lack of time and ability.

dezza · Sep 25, 2009

Graham Marsden said:
Although I no longer shoot, I was brought up as a countryman and a hunter of animals, birds and fish.

I'm a hunter, but just of fish these days, and proud of it.

That I don't shoot any more is not a choice founded on anything to do with ethics but a simple matter of a lack of time and ability.

That's about the same with myself Graham. I spent many years with a shotgun in my hand, roaming the maize stalks in winter after guinea fowl or duck. I would do it again if I had the where-with-all. As it is I am happy to try out my shooting skills occasionally with my air rifle on the range. And I just might take up archery again.

I love the shooting sports.

But the term: "Hunting" is only connected with "fox hunting" in Britain. In the USA, Australia, South Africa and other parts of the English speaking world, "hunting" means shooting, either with a firearm or a bow.

Derek Gibson · Sep 25, 2009

I see myself as a hunter that wishes to become personally aquainted with my prey, (briefly). Then return it to it's environment with the least harm possible. And for that I make no apology. Simple eh.

Neil Maidment · Sep 25, 2009

All forms of fishing are definately "hunting" by definition.

Virtually all my fishing can be described as "stalking" or "trapping", whether that's visually searching for trout, chub or barbel in clear water or crucians, tench from a lake. I'm specifically targeting certain fish in a variety of different ways.

Whether I keep or return the catch is irrelevant, if I've caught then I've successfully hunted.

As for "toffs" and fox hunting, nothing can be further from the truth. The vast majority are country loving/living people pursuing an actvity of choice, just like the majority of anglers!

Not been to a hunt for a long while but enjoyed the experience, even when I was the quarry -a drag hunt when I was a lot younger and fitter, being chased by a pack of hounds is one hell of an experience! Once caught, I was treated very humanely, dispatched quite painlessly...... to the local pub!

dezza · Sep 25, 2009

Mind you I wouldn't mind being able to go out and bag the odd 'roo.

Darned nice eating are Skippys.

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