The Bread Roll Rig

This rig shocked me the first time I saw it, and still does everytime I look at it.
I cannot believe someone would actually publish such a barbaric rig now-a-days!
Just have a damned long look at it and just envision what it could do to a fish.....foul hookings, hooking in the eyes, to name a couple.
Come on people remove this offensive and unuseful so called rig immediately, before someone new to the sport (or without common sense) decides to use it and harms a fish!!

That's a bit of a vulgar attitude isn't it, from someone who slides onto the site for the first time and immediately treats us to a tirade of pomposity and self-righteousness?

Quite apart from if you're right or wrong about the rig.

How about some sensible discussion first before diving in with both feet and making accusations about being offensive, lacking common sense and 'unuseful' (useless?).

If the majority that join in this debate convince me that it's a dangerous rig then I will remove it without hesitation. But not just on your high and mighty say-so Mr Bundock.

So, to start the debate in a proper manner let me say that I've used a similar rig to this for years and have never foul-hooked a fish whilst using it. I know other responsible anglers who use the actual bread roll rig and have never foul-hooked a fish.

The bread roll rig is a food source with a hookbait lying very close to it. So is this rig any different to a standard method feeder, except that it floats instead of lies on the bottom? Bearing in mind that many anglers use a popped up bait from the method feeder. How many of you foul-hook fish when using the method feeder with the standard short hooklength? I don't.

So, comments please about the bread roll rig. Constructive criticism, without the pomposity and insults, is always welcome.

Mr. Marsden, I fully apologize for using this as my first posting on this forum, but the rig in question was brought to my attention on another forum I have been contributing to for a number of years now, and felt that something had to be said.
I cannot think how you regard the posting as 'vulgar', 'pompose', 'insulting' or 'self righteousness'. I will just not accept something that will perform detrimental harm to a fish or even has a remote chance of such a thing occuring. I'm not one of these anglers who feel that they have to catch no matter what, even to the extent of harming fish and just wanted to warn people of such things happening.
You mention it is similar to a method type rig, I feel it is not as, with the method, the bait is much more closer to the hook, with generally a hair setup being employed, with the bread roll rig, you can clearly see the hook dangling freely from the roll by a few inches at least. I remember a number of years ago, Rod Hutchinson experimenting with something similar, with a boilie threaded up the hooklength and then the hook tied on, the end result being a boilie on the hooklength with the hook a few inches away very similar to the rig in question. He soon disgarded this experiment as he found the number of foulhookings unacceptable.
Another matter is with the line being wrapped around the bait, cage style as mentioned in the article, and tied with 2 half hitch knots. Firstly, the knots would 'strangle' the main line, weakening it. Secondly, anyone fishing near snags such as over hanging branches, would be in danger of 'snagging' on these branches with the 'cage' of line, possibly breaking off, resulting in a tethered fish if one comes across the rig and hooks itself.
Once again apologies if I seem to come across forcefully, I do get passionate about things that could harm fish, but would just like to say that in my opinion this is a very dangerous rig.

I may have got this wrong, but isn't the idea of a rig like this to fish a pinch of flake on the hook so that the fish thinks that it is a piece that has broken off? I'm sure that that is how the original cigar rig worked.

Why are we in the predator bit of the forum?

I've just realised this rig is what I've seen people using for mullet in the Greek islands. They use a few more hooks though. It works very well and I've never seen any foul hooked fish

Why don't we all use it then, lets see how many torn fins, foul hooked fish and lost eyes it takes before people realize the dangers of this rig.

This must be the most dangerous looking rig I've ever seen, looks like we could heading back to the good oll days of catching at all costs........luvleeeeeeeeee!

Also Mr Marsden,
Your attitude towards Steve's concerns over this rig out of order to say the least, in fact your response to Steve's concerns were vulgar at best and at worst I wouldn't say on a public forum, I'm not too sure who you are but if you are involved in the running of this site in any way then the outlook for this site is very poor.

A couple of things for you then Robin Davies.

I thought Grahams response was well tempered, the "in with both feet" attitude of the original post was in no way matched with the measured response of the editor.

Graham asked for my views on this before he posted a reply, and although I don't personally use this rig, I asked him how different it is to a plug or spinner.
How much eye or body damage does a lead or swim feeder cause?

I know people who use this rig and they are responsible anglers who would cease it's use immediately if it caused just one foul hooking.


You complain of a poor attitude from 'Mr Marsden', yet you come onto a new site, with no regard for who or how it is run and immediately start to slate people.

Are you aware that this is officially the most popular and most visited UK fishing website?
Do you think then that Mr Marsden is doing something right?
Or do you not care and you are just a mate of Steve Bundock and you are on here just to back him up?

Hmmmmm!
I have looked at the article and the responses to the said,
I DO believe that there is ment to be bread flake on the hook,(I hope so anyway),
As the rig is pictured it does look to me as being "Crude",
I can see no reason for needing to wrap the line around the bait and then tie 2 half hitches in the main line,
I would be very wary of tieing half hitches in my main line for fear of the stranglation that will happen on the tightening of the main line,
I DO tie half hitches in 20lb "Abnezia" when I make up rotten bottoms for my eel fishing which I have then tested to break at just over 8lb,(I use the line to form a stiff lead link,from lead to run ring) so I know of the damage the half hitch will do to 20lb line,
Wouldnt it be a better idea to either,
1, mold the bread around a "Stopped " poly ball, for close range up to say 30 yards
OR
2, if you want to cast a distance, and you need the bread to be more "Secure".
Use a lenght of fine line tied to the eye of the hook and wrap that around the "bread controller" and then tied off on its self rather then the main line,
The idea behind the rig is a good one, but there is not enough thought towards the presentation and the "Potential" problems highlighted in the original post by Steve Bundock.

Either way I wouldn`t use the rig in its pictured state,
That is my own opinion of the rig as I see it, (For what its worth!!)

well being new here and new to fishing, i tried this ,before all the responses, this weekend ( although i used a smaller version, with only about 1/4 of a slice). may i say i only used this as i was very annoyed with shoals of small fish attcking my bread bait and getting it before the big carp. within minutes i had a nice carp attracted to it, with loads of nibblers aswell. it slurped it, pulled but wasnt hooked properly. the fish got away, and the bread was just sliced by the line. i saw no harm done to the line, so carried on using it. i tried the rig again, and within 5 minutes i had hooked another carp, and landed it. a nice 8lb mirror carp ( which reminded me i needed a proper carp landing net, my circular net was only JUST big enough to land it!)i will add that i had the hook almost immediately at the end of the roll, about 1/2-1 inch away.

when i got home and read the first responce i was concerned about using the rig. to be honest it scared me that i didnt think it could foul hook! and after a nites worth of reading articles here, i am going to be a safer angler, and will have full respect for the fish from now on. they are more important than a bit of line or bait.

i will keep reading this thread, but will use this rig again if i need to, untill their is a majority of posts saying it should not be used.

i dont wish to start any arguments and appologise if i have upset anyone in this post. i just wanted to say that i have used it, and it works. there is a time and place for everything, and this could be a useful tool IF the hook isnt sticking out too far, in my opinion anyway ( for now...)

Carp Angler,

You are clearly not the kind of carp angler I associate with as you clearly have no consideration for the safety of the fish this should come first, the editors attutude is poor to say the least as is yours and as for this being the most visited UK fishing site, well that is laughable....... do you really consider that this site could possibly compete in any way with the likes of the Fishingwarehouse or RMC Anglings great site not that this has anything to do with the subject in any way what at all, so why you bought that up is beyond me it certainly doesn't excuse Mr Marsdens behaviour.

By the way in case you haven't noticed this post should be moved to the carp angling section not hidden here where minimum caring carp anglers can see it.

Good Night.

A few points to cover here. The first is that I have to confess that I was under the impression that the hook carried a bread flake bait, and being as some are saying the rig is meant to be used with a bare hook has caused me to look at it in a different light.

Second, and most important, is that, whatever the likes of fleeting visitors like Robin Davies and Steve Bundock say, I have the fish's welfare at heart and put that first and foremost.

In fact, sufficient negative things have been said about the rig to cast doubt on its safety such that I have removed it from FISHINGmagic?s pages. The possibility that the rig is meant to be used with a bare hook, which I hadn?t realised, was the main reason for its removal. I do still think that if the rig was used with a bait, as I initially thought, with a very short distance between the bread roll and the bait, then it is no different than a floating method feeder rig.

It is a pity that anglers like Steve Bundock don?t take a deep breath before posting and realise that they are much more likely to get a better reaction to their criticisms if they couch them in a less aggressive manner (but I do accept and thank him for his apology). And as for Robin Davies?s inept ramblings, then it needs to be said that his total lack of knowledge of FISHINGmagic and its regular contributors are so wide of the mark he may as well have been firing blanks.

His comment that Carp Angler has no consideration for the safety of the fish must have caused a great deal of mirth to regulars on this site. (And don?t worry about not wanting to associate with him, he?s fussy about the company he keeps, and you?re probably better off keeping away from him now anyway). And his comment that it is laughable that FM is the most popular fishing website in the UK just flags up his willingness to comment on subjects he knows little about. I?ve got news for you Mr Davies, the figures that prove FM is No.1 are from an official third party source. Obviously, you value your opinion more than the facts.

And finally, but not that we need more proof that he is more interested in conflict rather than constructive criticism, he says, ?By the way in case you haven't noticed this post should be moved to the carp angling section not hidden here where minimum caring carp anglers can see it.?

He obviously doesn?t realise that it was his mate who put it in the predator section in the first place. And I haven?t moved it, yet, because those who are already contributing to the thread may not have been able to find it.

This thread has been a classic example of how an original aggressive post has hidden the good intentions of the poster, for this issue could have been resolved satisfactorily without the rancour.

It will be interesting to see whether Messrs Bundock and Davies make further contributions to FM, perhaps with a view to helping the less experienced carp angling posters on here, like Carp Angler does almost every day. Or maybe that just doesn?t appeal.

Several points here again,

I suggest Mr Marsden as a responsible editor that you should have looked at the rig in the first place before publishing it.

I don't know why you keep rambling on about Steve Bundocks posts because it makes no difference whether it was his first post or his hundredth post his concerns would still have been the same and your reply would still have been just as rude and arrogent.

I think you'll find I know not only know a great deal about web sites how they run, how they are made and how much they are used but I also know a great deal about carp angling in general, I can spot a bad rig a mile away..... please do give me a laugh and give us all the source of your OFFICIAL third party including figures, individual hit counts and so on.

A very week excuse for not moving the post indeed, it should be moved!

As for posting here in the future that depends solely on your attitude and your continued rudeness, I think you will find I've helped many young anglers with their carp angling and I continue to do so so don't even go there.

So the ball is in your court I think you owe Steve Bundock an apology for your rudeness, if you was unhappy about his FIRST post then there were other ways you could have dealt with it.

Have a fantastic day, I think you need it.

As it happens,

I owe you Mr Marsden an apology because I forgot to give you credit for taking the time to re-examin this rig, come to the right conclusion and then remove the rig from your main page.

So thanks for that if nothing else.

The rig in question was shown to me by a bailiff at Makins fishery almost ten years ago, it was very hush hush at the time. I've used it from that day until this without incident and will continue to do so. I do use a bit of flake (or crust) on the hook now but never used to. As for line strangulation "PAH". Tie this rig at home and pull it as a hooked fish would, all you end up with is nicely sliced bread (ideal for feeding your swim). This "knot" is not a knot if tied correctly. I tie mine slightly differently to what was posted on here, I don't wrap the line down and up the bread but pull the line straight down from top of bread to hook end and wrap up then tie the half hitch, this must be looped the correct way (hard to explain in words). As for this being a bad rig, Why? Perhaps Mr Davies can answer that one logically without condemning all rigs with hook attached to line and possibly adding more fuel to the antis' fire, condemn one condemn them all!
Graham, I strongly urge you to reconsider your thinking on this one and repost the article. I've had more foul hookings with conventional feeder tactics and sprayed maggot and waggler tactics than I care to remember, but not with this rig, Luck, coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, who knows, should we condemn wag and mag or feeder tactics? NO. Should we condemn the bread roll? NO. Simple really!

Alright Bob,

You have obviously seen the dangers yourself which is why you don't use the rig as depicted on here, also as you say you use bait on the hook as well, perhaps you should re-submit this article and show this rig as you actually use it...... you want me to explain more, no problem the dangers are clear, as clear as they was with the first versions of the hair rig with the very long hairs, remeber the fish being hooked outside the mouth and sometimes near the eyes?.... I do, I can't remember a report of any eyes being taken but knowing the climate of secrecy at the time few would have let on.

You can't garantee that a carp won't pick at this rig from the side.. they will, not always but they will, the version of the rig shown on this site in this situation leaves after a while a bare hook flapping around and free to hook the fish wherever touches with my biggest concerns being the eyes and the pectorals, it may not have happened to you but can you garantee that the version of the ris that was shown will not cause this too happen?

Cheers, Robin.

I thought that I'd already explained that I was under the mistaken impression that the hook was baited, which you must admit puts the rig into a different light than if it had a bare hook. Whether or not the rig is safe even with a baited hook is open to debate, but in the interests of the carp I decided that even a shadow of doubt warranted its removal from the site.

Where you don't help your argument (any argument) is in the assumptions you make about issues and people you obviously know little about.

For instance, Carp Angler is a very responsible and caring angler, and if you had taken the trouble to read at least some of his contributions to FM you would have known better than to write what you did. As for what you say about me, then you're naive to say the least. But that's for someone else to comment on.

Okay, so you say you know a great deal about websites and carp angling, and I have to hold my hand up to that because it takes a special kind of man to make assertions like that. I know I wouldn't - couldn't - be so immodest. But if you're that good, then fair enough. My 50-plus years experience of fishing and my full time job as a website editor still leave me wishing to learn a lot more because I realise I know very little in the grand scheme of things.

The website figures you ask for are not 'hits' by the way, for they're pretty meaningless. They're based on FM's market share and they break down (at the last, recent, count) as follows:

1st FM 16.63%
2nd 14.06%
3rd 12.21%
4th 10.42%
5th 7.39%
6th 5.48%

And in case you're wondering why I haven't named the websites from 2nd to 6th it's because it's useful to know where you rank and you have to pay the source for the figures. They don't give them away. The figures were sourced from here:
<a href=http://www.hitwise.com/ss/>Hitwise.com</A>.

Again, you're making assumptions that there is some ulterior motive for not moving the thread from the predator to the carp section. My reasons for not doing so have already been stated, but I'll move it anyway, right after this post, just for you.

Bob, good points, but I'll leave it off the site for the time being, at least until I'm satisfied it is as safe as any other rig. Right now, I'm not convinced one way or the other. I still don't see the difference between this and, say, the standard method feeder rig with a popped-up bait which is widely accepted as 'safe', or as safe as we're going to get without being pedantic.

By the way Robin, Bob was not the author of the 'Bread Roll Rig' article I've subsequently removed. It was Clive Evans who has yet to join the debate. No doubt he will when he's aware of it.

Woops I missed that I was more concerned with the rig than who posted it, perhaps Bob could have a go at submitting an updated version.... his first article maybe!

Also no doubt I'm wrong about Carp Angler I'm sure he cares about the fish he catches as the next man, you can only speek as you find and he was defending what is possible a dangerous rig or possibly a dangerous version.

Graham I'd suggest you promote yourself a little better, if you have fished for over 50 years and are a full time web editor then you indeed know plenty so you are underselling yourself..... as you are a full time editor I think you know by now how to react to a post you don't as yet it appears you don't, you obviously know a lot but you certainly don't know all you need to know, the way you reacted to that anglers concerns was terrible to say the least.

Robin.

You've missed the whole point.

I didn't 'react' to his concerns, I reacted to the way he expressed them, to which he has subsequently and graciously apologised, which was big of him.