Great River Anglers

dezza · Nov 21, 2009

How do you qualify such people? What attributes must be possessed by a truly great river angler?

And here I am not looking for those who can stick two rods up on a rest, go to sleep and wait for a barbel to hook itself!

richiekelly · Nov 21, 2009

i suppose that it must be someone that is able to fish all types of river in all conditions and be able to catch whatever target species,some one who is able to fish different methods all as compitently as each other depending on conditions

Rickrod · Nov 21, 2009

Ron for me it would be people who win matches on them. Turning up and fishing the worst time of the day against other good anglers.

The bad one · Nov 21, 2009

Ivan Marks for me! Once spent 1/2 hour talking to him on the end peg of the next match down from the match I was on, on the Trent. Didn't know who he was when I was talking to him. It was only after I found out who had been fishing that peg.

He never let on either, but what a stickfloat angler he was, catching ever other trot down his swim. What an informative, nice bloke to boot, in the short time I watched and talked to him. I probably learned more in that half an hour about sticking on the Trent, than I'd learned myself in the previous 5 years of fishing it.

Then there were other anglers in the club and went on the club matches, who no one knew at a national level, who had that type of magic like Ivan. Alan Grey, Ted his brother-in-law, John Mills, Cyril Austin, "Snelly" Harry Snellson. As a 16 year old kid you just knew you were there as pools fodder for these guys, but you kept going on the matches and paying your pools money in the hope you'd turn em' over. Never happened though!

However, you hoped that you'd get drawn in the pairs pools with one of them and they'd then share their magic with you to win the money. Happy days!

Graham Whatmore · Nov 21, 2009

Over the years I have had the privalege of watching some, if not all of the best river anglers and every one of them has been a match angler, I could list loads of names on here, I won't but most of them are now history.

The ability to draw a peg on a river and under pressure from close competing anglers take the maximum out of that peg is what makes the top match anglers without equal. Their total precision and unbelievable float control sometimes in adverse conditions is what seperates them from your average angler.

There are still anglers fishing matches on some of our rivers who are on a par with the names of old, Wayne Swinscoe, Dave Harrell, Hadrian Whittle, Alan Scothorne are just four names but there are others still doing battle and are a joy to watch in action.

slime monster · Nov 21, 2009

I agree with Graham and Dave Harrell is a class act on any water

George387 · Nov 21, 2009

I had the priveldge to meet & watch Ivan marks & as previously mentioned what a superb guy, he had time for everyone nothing was too much trouble to him. One other river angler not mentioned but must be among the best there was, Billy lane the World Champion, now there was an angler I would love to have met.

richiekelly · Nov 21, 2009

i used billy lanes shop for years he was a great bloke and always made time for any kids in the shop where they were concerened nothing was to much trouble.

preston96 · Nov 21, 2009

Graham Whatmore said:
Over the years I have had the privalege of watching some, if not all of the best river anglers and every one of them has been a match angler, I could list loads of names on here, I won't but most of them are now history.

The ability to draw a peg on a river and under pressure from close competing anglers take the maximum out of that peg is what makes the top match anglers without equal. Their total precision and unbelievable float control sometimes in adverse conditions is what seperates them from your average angler.

Hmmm, whilst i would agree that overall top match anglers are amongst the very best of river angler hadn't there used to be a lot of top pegs "aquired" :wh

How about the dry fly angler on tiny rivers, the thought and skill involved in presenting a single imitation bait ( As apposed to introducing enough bait to whip up a feediing situation) and to succsefully get the fish to take is surely every bit as skilful?

dezza · Nov 21, 2009

All good points, but we must not just consider match anglers. Remember that match anglers are not all that good at certain aspects of watercraft as their swim is selected for them.

There is an enormous amount of skill in using watercraft to select your swim. Then there is the know-how in the choice of the method that is used. Today of course most river anglers after barbel or even chub, chuck out a heavy weight and wait for an almighty yank from the fish. It's called "Carbelling." I often wonder what has happened to the art of touch legering, the rolling leger, laying on or stret pegging. All brilliant fish catching methods which have caught me many good fish in my life.

I guess these techniques have been lost in the mists of time, yet I, and just a few left who knew of the golden days of angling, still use these tactics.

In addition to the above, I also include fly fishing, using both dry and wet flies. It's not just trout that you can catch with artificial flies, but virtually all coarse fish, including pike. And this year I have caught some nice rudd on the fly.

The first river fish I ever caught on a fly was a dace; just like Mr. Crabtree.

Rickrod · Nov 22, 2009

John wilson has got to be one

Philip · Nov 22, 2009

I think many people including me think to match anglers and names like Harrell and Marks sprang to my mind too. However you make an interesting point about watercraft and swim selection could also be a determining factor...very true! That brings a whole new spectrum of names into the frame.

As Rick rod says, John Wilson could be a contender, how about Trefor West ? ...John Bailey ? ...What about Martin Hooper ? …big chub, Barbel and a brace of 3 pound Roach on the float.....you have to know what your doing to put together catches like that . going back a bit further I read about Colonel Crow and Warren (not Pete) on the Avon ...or how about this as a curve ball ...Arthur Olgesby !

I think I would still go for a match man as they need to be proficient across a range of swims and species and have to catch where ever they are plonked ..but I cant decide which one. Tricky !

The bad one · Nov 22, 2009

Err Ron you asked this question on a Coarse Fishing Site so why should we consider Fly Anglers. Suggest you ask that question on the Fly site mate!
Those that only coarse fish, and I do, would know little of them. So they wouldn't feature in our thinking would they?

I'm still with the match anglers from the 60s-70s for the reasons Philip has pointed out. Those guys not only knew what they were doing in a match and how to get the best out of the pegs they drew. They had great watercraft as well when they went pleasure fishing. Cyril and Snelly did on few occasions take me with them on a few of their pleasure sessions. And when the confines of peg draws where off them and they could fish anywhere on the length of river we were on, they really could select swims based on watercraft and put a bag of mixed fish together.

The only ever medal I won when I match fished was won in a team of four in the Ashton and Oldham Winter League with them two and they were handicapped with two kids me and my mate Dave in their team. We were picked in the club draw as Pelican No 3 team. The other Pelican club teams having some of the club's cracks in them. We Pelican No 3 and Snelly and Cyril in particular, really got some stick on the coach form all the other teams and clubs in the A&O league, about 15, on the first match outing. Cyril won it by a mile. Snelly won his section and finished second in the overall match and both me and Dave finished second in our sections.
They didn't take the pi** on the way back. The whole winter league followed similar lines, Dave even won one on the Yorkshire Derwent with a barbel of 5 lb and a few bits. Best I did was to win a section once with a few seconds and thirds.

Once the two of them realised we could actually fish a bit, they worked their trips off with us, coming to our swims before the match started telling us which lines to fish, how to feed it, float to use, the works. Through their knowledge and watercraft, we'd the winter league won with a match to go.
I still have that medal 40 odd years on in a drawer somewhere!

Peter Jacobs · Nov 22, 2009

Without a doubt any successful river match angler has to be 'up there' as they are really in tune with their rivers, but "Great" not too sure about that.

One of the very best river anglers that I have seen recently was a chap on the Itchen Fishery who caught some lovely Brown Trout even when others were struggling or blanking.

At the tail end of the season on a very difficult day a few of us gathered up in the hut for lunch, and talk turned to how hard the river was fishing.
This chap sat quietly and then reached into his bag for a small fly tying kit and proceeded to tie a dry fly, the likes of which I certainly haven't seen before.

He was fishing the beat upstream of mine and I watched him in the afternoon catch two brace of large trout. Back in the hut at tea time it turned out that he had caught more than the rest of us put together.

Now, was he a 'great' or simply very much in tune with this river?

As to coarse fishing, I was pegged next to Steve Gardner at a match in southern Norway some years back, on a river he had never seen before in his life.

He set-up two waggler rods and after 4 'practice casts' proceeded to fish the 'wag and mag' for the entire match.

He won the match, by a country mile, on a day when us regulars on that river didn't quite struggle, but came nowhere near his final weight.

To me, Steve Gardner is one of the all time greats on the rivers.

preston96 · Nov 22, 2009

The bad one said:
Err Ron you asked this question on a Coarse Fishing Site so why should we consider Fly Anglers. Suggest you ask that question on the Fly site mate!
Those that only coarse fish, and I do, would know little of them. So they wouldn't feature in our thinking would they?

Dont coarse fish count when caught on the fly then? the question was in the general section. :wh

dezza · Nov 22, 2009

The bad one said:
Err Ron you asked this question on a Coarse Fishing Site so why should we consider Fly Anglers. Suggest you ask that question on the Fly site mate!
Those that only coarse fish, and I do, would know little of them. So they wouldn't feature in our thinking would they?

I'm still with the match anglers from the 60s-70s for the reasons Philip has pointed out. Those guys not only knew what they were doing in a match and how to get the best out of the pegs they drew. They had great watercraft as well when they went pleasure fishing. Cyril and Snelly did on few occasions take me with them on a few of their pleasure sessions. And when the confines of peg draws where off them and they could fish anywhere on the length of river we were on, they really could select swims based on watercraft and put a bag of mixed fish together.

The only ever medal I won when I match fished was won in a team of four in the Ashton and Oldham Winter League with them two and they were handicapped with two kids me and my mate Dave in their team. We were picked in the club draw as Pelican No 3 team. The other Pelican club teams having some of the club's cracks in them. We Pelican No 3 and Snelly and Cyril in particular, really got some stick on the coach form all the other teams and clubs in the A&O league, about 15, on the first match outing. Cyril won it by a mile. Snelly won his section and finished second in the overall match and both me and Dave finished second in our sections.
They didn't take the pi** on the way back. The whole winter league followed similar lines, Dave even won one on the Yorkshire Derwent with a barbel of 5 lb and a few bits. Best I did was to win a section once with a few seconds and thirds.

Once the two of them realised we could actually fish a bit, they worked their trips off with us, coming to our swims before the match started telling us which lines to fish, how to feed it, float to use, the works. Through their knowledge and watercraft, we'd the winter league won with a match to go.
I still have that medal 40 odd years on in a drawer somewhere!

As far as I've been made aware of in the past Phil, Fishing Magic is a site for all round anglers.

And I do not discriminate between different styles of fishing other than they are different styles. Fishing is fishing, whether you are casting a float or a fly in doesn't matter to me, and it shoudn't matter to any real angler.

Stealph Viper · Nov 22, 2009

I would have thought that an all rounder would have made the Greatest of River Anglers.

Just because you match fish doesn't mean you are the greatest, there must be great river anglers out there that have never fished a match (or not got in to the match scene). Could match Anglers, pick up a pike rod and go Pike Fishing ? i don't know. Yes, they could probably eventually turn there hand to it, but, could they do it already ?

Yes, the Match Angler has to be proliferent in how to make the most out of the swim that they have been given.

I think someone along the lines of Matt Hayes is a great River Angler, there is nothing i can think of that he hasn't done, from trotting, to specimen fishing (Pike, Chub, Barbel etc) to fly fishing on Rivers.

His series "MainStream" was a really good example of his skills as an all round River Angler.

John Wilson, Chris Yates, Bob James, Matt Hayes must be up there with some of the all time greats of all round river fishing.

Derek Gibson · Nov 22, 2009

J.H.R Bazely, Billy Lane, Ivan Marks, to name but a few. All tested their skills against the best in the country over many years.

Truly masters of their art. Having met two of the above, I know they had that indefinable something that we all look for.

dezza · Nov 22, 2009

And don't forget Trefor West, a man who can look at a stretch of river and point out exactly where to fish, for what species, and with what tackle, and go and do it!

Other great river anglers of the past have been Tag Barnes, Reg Reghyni (taught by the great Jim Bazley), Joe Taylor of the Taylor Brothers, JW Martin (his books are really worth reading), Peter Wheat, and Richard Stuart Walker himself, a master with the fly rod on small streams.

Graham Whatmore · Nov 22, 2009

Quote Remember that match anglers are not all that good at certain aspects of watercraft as their swim is selected for them. Unquote.

That Ron, is precisely why they are so good, don't make the common mistake that the top match anglers can't read a river, they can and better than most. To fish a peg that you wouldn't normally dream of fishing and then go on and amass a good weight off it is down to their skill, purely and simply because they pick the most likely lines on their peg and then fish and feed it for the optimum amount of fish, that requires an amount of skill that average anglers can't produce.

Fly anglers? Nah! I don't think so, their skill is the degree to which they handicap themselves by fishing with different coloured fluff, anything but that what the fish eats. Are you seriously telling me that a fly angler could outfish a top river match angler on a given stretch of water?

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