What Impact Does Angling Have on Evolution?

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Recent research has, understandibly, shown that feeding birds via bird feeders has already changed the way some species is evolving.

So what about the impact angling has on evolution?

What evolutionary changes is/could angling make?
 

davebike

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I guess the moving of fish stock epically species into water they ave not existed in
Roach to Ireland and Scotland Barbel into lots of rivers etc
Also the introduction of carp especially the modern large fast growing strains, and their escape from lakes into rivers will both have dramatic effects on aquatic wildlife
 

peter crabtree

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I suppose it already has. freshwater Fish now eat luncheon meat, cooked sweet corn , pellets made from sea fish etc. These never occurred naturally before angling introduced fish to them. How did they know it was food before they tried it..
 

Graham Whatmore

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Carp getting into our rivers both accidentally and by placement in large numbers could prove a step too far for some species given the massive alteration in fish stocks that barbel introduction caused. Australia of course treat them as vermin because they have taken over their rivers almost to the extinction of other sporting species and they are mercilessly killed at every opportunity, the do gooders in the UK would have a field day if it happened here, can imagine it?

Live baiting resulting in species being introduced where they never existed before can have an impact as well, I'm thinking of places like the Lake district in particular but there are others.
 

dryfly66

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How about cormorants which for millenia roosted and nested on sea rocks; moving inland nesting and roosting in trees - previously unheard of, at least in the British Isles.

Q./ What brought them inland?

A./ Easy - Stocked lakes and reservoirs - artificially stuffed to the gills with rainbow trout and coarse fish.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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Isn't there two sides to this, one, what impact have anglers and their baits had/will have and two, what impact will the business of angling have.

To put some fine points on this, I don't think barbel eating luncheon meat will have any effect unless it contains some weird genes that get into their bloodstream. They, along with carp eating boilies, may simply get fatter, but denied of these treats, their offspring may well grow as their forefathers did. No change.

However, the business of providing good angling to us may well change things, such as the Thames barbel are now mixed with Trent barbel. If there is a difference at all, the fish may change in subsequent recruitment and over time who knows, but it may not be a big change.

The larger question is, what impact will the introduction of new species have on our rivers. As has been mentioned, escapee carp in our rivers now make up a large proportion of the biomass. But what of the stupid idiots (some may well be pike livebaiters) introducing a alien specie into a water that has never had them before, such as wels catfish into the Thames. Fine if all you want to catch are big catfish and carp over 20lbs, but disastrous for all other anglers and fish species.

It's a multi-faceted question that has no simple answer.

So I'm sitting on the fence.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

How about cormorants which for millenia roosted and nested on sea rocks; moving inland nesting and roosting in trees - previously unheard of, at least in the British Isles.

Q./ What brought them inland?

A./ Easy - Stocked lakes and reservoirs - artificially stuffed to the gills with rainbow trout and coarse fish.

More likely cross breeding with it's Turkish cousin actually, Carbo Sinensis, a more inland bird. To tell the difference count the white feathers on it's throat, sinensis has 33 more than the indigenous specie. :):)
 
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There are MANY sides to this and there isn't any ONE answer.

That's why I asked the questions:

So what about the impact angling has on evolution?

What evolutionary changes is/could angling make?


Take the recent bird story I refered to as an example.

The black cap used to migrate north to europe. I few strayed a little too far north to great britain. Because there was no food they would have died. EVOLUION in action. However, over a number of years people have been putting out bird feeders. Any birds that stray too far north still get fed and have more chance of surviving the winter.

How many of the giant carp we see caught these days got that big eating naturals? Big, pot bellied carpare basically obese.

In fact you could make the point about many a big fish these days because of the amount of HNV baits that are thrown into our waters.

Then there are obese humans themselves. The increased popularity of carp fishing with its beds and bivvies has attracted the unfit couch potatoe off the sofa and onto the bank side.
 

klik2change

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Evolution is about minute incremental changes over very long periods so it seems likely that evolution per se would be unaffected by angling. However that view of evolution is dependant on nature taking a very slow natural course. I dont think Darwin recognised the enormous changes man brought and will continue to bring about, within the biosphere. The contemporary view of climate change, global pollution etc, are extrapolated from data which are taken from the modern situation in comparison to the old world.

Human acivity makes a massive difference!

Chaos theory has to some extent taken over from classical evolution. All sorts of totally unpredictable events and situations are now taking place which simply were impossible in earlier periods.

THIS is the crux of the environmental case against modern consumerism.
 
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Paul H

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I read an article in New Scientist recently and the bold statement they made was that anyone who thinks they understand evolution almost certainly doesn't.

Most people think of it as a linear process starting with one animal and ending up with something else that has evolved from it. In actual fact it is more like a spider's web of cross breeding, occasional mutations, ecological disasters and enviromental changes favouring certain characteristics and punishing others.

Some previously very succesful species have been wiped off the planet by a simple change in their environment that happened to favour a competitor - check out this article on ocean extinctions events.

Evolution is happening all around us all the time.

Fish feeding on angler's baits instead of other, more natural foods is not evolution, it's just a change in behaviour. In fact not really even a change in behaviour as the fish is doing what it's always done - take advantage of whatever 'food' happens to come it's way.

Now if barbel developed larger mouths to eat ever bigger pieces of luncheon meat because those with small mouths starved to death then that would be an evolutionary effect caused by angling.
 

klik2change

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Most people think of it as a linear process starting with one animal and ending up with something else that has evolved from it. In actual fact it is more like a spider's web of cross breeding, occasional mutations, ecological disasters and enviromental changes favouring certain characteristics and punishing others.
spot on Paul H!
 

Sean Meeghan

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I suspect that the evolution of fishes will mirror our own in that ready availabiltiy of food wil mean that efficient feeders are no longer preferentially slected and factors like disease resistance, the ability to survive crowding and obesity, and an ability to survive for long periods out of water will prevail.

At least among carp;)
 

dryfly66

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Re Cormorants, I read somewhere that according to "experts" in Ornithology the inland birds are a separate species ,can anyone throw light on this.....

Phalacrocorax carbo carbo The great, or costal cormorant versus the "continental" Phalacrocorax carbo sinesis. These subspecies are capable of interbreeding as the Wolfman says:

More likely cross breeding with it's Turkish cousin actually, Carbo Sinensis, a more inland bird. To tell the difference count the white feathers on it's throat, sinensis has 33 more than the indigenous specie. :):)


However I think there is a bit more to it than that. :)

Cormorant subspecies identification

gular.JPG


Another interesting and detailed read on the subject: ftp://80.57.161.240/artikelen/A/Aalscholver1.pdf
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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However I think there is a bit more to it than that.
It was just a joke goign around a few years ago that if you wanted to be selective about the cormorants you shot (under licence) then count the white feathers on their throats as they flew past you.

Yeah, like you have the time for that!
:rolleyes:;):)
 

Xplorer1

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Effect of angling on evolution

No one's addressed the possible effects of angling on human evolution: obsessive behaviour, imperviousness to cold, getting up absurdly early in the morning, compulsive collecting and hoarding of tackle, gross exaggeration, the ability to tie tiny knots in hair-thin line, skills in concealing vast expenditure in the household budget for example. All this could be leading to a series of new Homo species - Homo anglicus, or Hook Man, Homo carbonicus or Pole Man, Homo trottus or Stick Man, Homo competitivus or Match Man, Homo commercialis or Bivvie Man, and many more exciting evolutionary possibilities.
 

keora

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I don't believe angling with rod and line has much effect on the evolution of the fish we catch. Evolution is the process by which different kinds of organisms have developed from earlier forms, especially by natural selection. The evolutionary process takes thousands of years for one species to develop into another species. Our species Homo sapiens is believed to be about 200,000 years old.

Some species of coarse fish in our waters (barbel, bream, tench) are getting bigger, although it's nothing to do with evolution. The environment is just more beneficial to fish growth, such as warmer winters, and less competition from smaller species which are less prolific than they used to be. In a way, it's similar to the development of humans. Modern man, especially in the richer countries of the world, is taller and heavier our ancestors because we are wealthier and food is plentiful and relatively cheap.

Carp are much bigger than they were say 50 years ago. It's due to selective breeding by fish farmers, who choose the fastest growing carp in a year group to breed from. Growth of these carp, when stocked in lakes, is further increased by anglers using large quantities of highly nutritious baits in some of waters known to contain big carp.
 
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Jeff Woodhouse

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith2 View Post
Carp are much bigger than they were say 50 years ago. It's due to selective breeding by fish farmers, who choose the fastest growing carp in a year group to breed from.
There's a form of evolution; man made evolution, but evolution non-the-less.
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Yes, but in many ways, no different than what they have done with the tomato, for example.
 
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