No experts in Angling? Pull the other one, Ron!

Mark Wintle · Dec 6, 2009

Ron's claim that there are no experts in angling is either silly, or Ron has some definition of expert that means that unless one has mastered every aspect of the whole spectrum of angling one cannot be called an expert.:wh

The definition of expert is: taught by practice: having a familiar knowledge, having a facility of performance, skilful, adroit. Skilled in any art or science.

Apply this to angling and look at the many skills that we can develop whether by method or species or type and you will find many experts, indeed, many post on these forums. I have expertise in trotting/floatfishing, catching roach and float making/design, just for starters, and many other anglers have comparative skills. None of us can claim expertise in EVERY type of fishing, species or type but then life is too short to have any chance of achieving that.

slime monster · Dec 6, 2009

No experts ,,fantastic news Ron that makes every match a lottery...........NOT!!!!

The Monk · Dec 6, 2009

personally I`ve always been of the believe that expert was too strong a term to be applied to something with so many varibles and unknowns, people can lead in certain fields by research, application, learned knowledge and experience and can by some be considered an authority, the angling press are very good at elivated some anglers to this status, this doesnt neccessarily make them an expert of course in the true sense though, indeed the word appears to be applied liberally these days. I think once an angler believes hes an expert, its time to call it a day, angling, to me at least has always been a continuous learning journey, the word expert sounds far too accomplished and complacent to me.

dezza · Dec 6, 2009

Quite right of course mate, as you and I say there are no experts in angling, just people who have done a bit more of one particular style of angling than others, or just as important, have had opportunities that others have not had.

I spent 30 years earning a living in the filtration business, and quite rightly considered myself an expert and as such a professional in this business.

As regards angling, I have spent over 60 years at it. I have fished every style of angling you can name in many countries of the world and for far more species of fish than I can remember, most times successfully too.

All I ever wanted to be in the fishing world was to be considered a reasonably competent all-rounder.

And whilst I would call myself an enthusiast, I would never call myself an expert.

____________________

"Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

Albert Einstein

Fred Bonney · Dec 6, 2009

Hear hear to that!!

The Monk · Dec 6, 2009

then again maybe I`ve just been unlucky, I`ve met one or two good anglers over the years, some very exceptional, but no experts, of course many people have expertises in specific disciplines, this is however far removed from being an expert, I think maybe some people are getting the terminology mixed up. I think we have to consider anglings measurable attributes againsts the variables, or should I say known variables and these are many, there is so much we don`t understand in angling and maybe thats what creates the interest.

Mark Wintle · Dec 6, 2009

Read the definition more carefully - it's not my definition but from an acknowledged authority.

There is a world of difference between enthusiast and expert. Try match fishing and it isn't the enthusiasts you have to beat. When I started I was 12 and I had loads of enthusiasm but no expertise or skill, yet years later I can remember fishing some team matches with a great deal of expertise, every last ounce I could muster, yet not always a great deal of enthusiasm - more a case of 'if we want to win this league I'd better give it 100%' even if I knew it to be a grueller in bad weather with little chance of much sport. Very much a case of 'when the going gets tough the tough get going'.

There are skilful practitioners of angling even if the scope of their expertise is limited to a single species, style of fishing, river etc. That makes them experts even if you don't like it.

Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC} · Dec 6, 2009

I kind of took Ron's point to mean that no one knows every single facet of any discipline in angling, and, as the Monk says, given the infinite variables there can be, I'd agree with him. Highly skilled seems a more suitable description to me.

Mark Wintle · Dec 6, 2009

That's where the definition of expert fits the bill; it's another way of describing highly skilled. I agree we are always learning, though it sometimes feels like we've forgotten more than we currently know!

dezza · Dec 6, 2009

Skilful practitioners of angling I don't doubt. It has been said of myself on many occasions that I am an expert fly caster. I certainly taught it for over 15 years, but it doesn't make myself an expert fly fisher.

I don't think there is such a thing as an expert fly fisher. I have fished with such luminaries from time to time when they have blanked.

And so have I.

______________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

Albert Einstein

Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC} · Dec 6, 2009

Mark Wintle said:
That's where the definition of expert fits the bill; it's another way of describing highly skilled. I agree we are always learning, though it sometimes feels like we've forgotten more than we currently know!

Or in my case Mark, never really known in the first place.

Mark Wintle · Dec 6, 2009

Being an expert is no guarantee against blanking, or mis-reading the conditions, or getting the wrong hunch. Sometimes people try something different just to see what happens instead of the more predictable, even in matches, or is that just me?

If people like Skues, Goddard and Church were'nt/aren't expert flyfishers then I despair.

preston96 · Dec 6, 2009

I must be very lucky, i have come into contact with many whom i class as expert anglers.....i have also, over the years learnt much from them.

dezza · Dec 6, 2009

One thing I can say for certain.

Goddard is an expert freshwater entymologist.

___________________
"Good company and good discourse are the very sinews of virtue."

Isaak Walton

The Monk · Dec 6, 2009

Mark Wintle said:
That's where the definition of expert fits the bill; it's another way of describing highly skilled. I agree we are always learning, though it sometimes feels like we've forgotten more than we currently know!

I think you may be playing with words a little here Mark, but yes I agree we certainly forget a lot and it gets worst as we get older mate, the human brain is only capable of retaining so much information at anyone time the rest is learn behaviour and evolved/developed skills, this does not make you an expert but can give you some measure of expertise. The definition of expert appears to be negotiable dependant on which school you conscribe to and the percentage of variables in the discipline, angling has many. The bit I get stuck with is deciding rightly consistantly, consistently - In a consistent manner; constantly; always
I don`t know an angler who never blanks, therefore I know no experts?

geoffmaynard · Dec 6, 2009

I once referred to Russ Symons as an 'expert sea angler' and he objected claiming that an expert was an:

Ex- as in 'has-been' and
Spurt - a drip under pressure

Graham Whatmore · Dec 6, 2009

If there is no such thing as an expert angler then there isn't any such thing as an expert in anything (including throwing bits of fluff).

You are trying to deny the definition of what an expert is. The OED definition of an expert is as Mark stated so if you think there is no such thing as expert you had best inform the OED they don't know what they are talking about! The definition of expert applies to everything including angling which isn't a special case though you might think so Ron.

geoffmaynard · Dec 6, 2009

No. You can be an expert in one or more disciplines but never in all. Think about it. Blue marlin, salmon, roach, pike, mahseer - the list is endless. You can crack a few of them but never all

Graham Whatmore · Dec 6, 2009

No, you best think about it Geoff, all things have branches and people become expert in one or two of them. Alan Scothorne is an expert match angler, in fact he is so expert he is one of the best in the world but that doesn't mean he is an expert trawler man or shark angler. You are doing the same as Ron you are not accepting the definition of expert.

geoffmaynard · Dec 6, 2009

Okay. I'm an expert breather then. So are you and him and him, we are all experts if you widen the focus enough. Alan S. is an expert in his chosen discipline but how far can he chuck a fly? Read a salmon river? Spot a bonefish on the flats, run a straight trolling lure? Handle a beachcaster?

Angling is a very wide subject. There is no such thing as an expert across the board.

No experts in Angling? Pull the other one, Ron!

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