Stop This Evil Practice Now!!

I just heard from a friend of mine about the utterley evil practice of removing large numbers of sandeels from the ocean, and, wait for it:

Burning them in power stations!

And would you believe it, the Danes do this!

There is no doubt wrongs in using pelagic fish species to make fishmeal pellets and carp bait, but this one takes the cake.

Does anyone know more about this practice?

If this is the case, the rest of the world must force Denmark, at gunpoint if necessary, to stop this utterley detestable practice at once.

No wonder we have no salmon in the North Sea.

""There is no doubt wrongs in using pelagic fish species to make fishmeal pellets and carp bait, but this one takes the cake""


Ron, the amount used as Carp bait is a spec in the ocean

Ron, from a brief research of this subject I learn that the Danes no longer use them for fuel in power stations due to public protest. They do however hoover up a massive tonnage per year which goes into animal feeds (pigs)
and salmon farming feeds. The main concern is now the sea birds that eat them are thinning out, as are species of fish such as mackerel. I believe the oil extracted is also a vital ingredient in some cosmetics.

Good to see it's not just the bad nasty Carp angler raping the oceons! And by the way Ron, fishmeal and oils are not just used by Carp anglers, Tench, Bream, Barbel, chub and more, just look at some ground baits?

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

peter crabtree said:

I believe the oil extracted is also a vital ingredient in some cosmetics.

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That brings a whole new meaning to fish or Cod face

Let me let you know what I think.

First of all I am not getting at the carp anglers alone, I am getting at all anglers. Not only that, but there are far too many pets in the world, especially of the canine and feline kind.

I strongly would recomment that dogs and cats be heavily licenced, something like £1,000 a year at the least. This would cut the pet food industry by an enormous amount. What do we need a petfood industry for anyway?

At the same time we can ban the manufacturing of boilies and pellets. What's wrong with natural baits? Come on, tell me?

And it's the same way with some game fishers who desire bigger and bigger fish. The best stillwater trout fishing I ever experienced was when they used to stock the reservoirs with large numbers of fingerling trout and the trout grew out by eating natural food. Sure they didn't get as big as some of the pellet fed "jumbos" you see today, but they did reach 4 to 5 pounds of fighting fury!

"What's wrong with natural baits? Come on, tell me?"

Nothing at all Ron, but I'm sure that you are familiar with the HNV theory and Fred Wilton? Not only were they used for the principles of HNV but also for their selectivity as a bait.The humble boilie was born!

Try casting a worm 100yrs, best keep your hat on Ron

Ron The Hat Clay said:

Let me let you know what I think.

First of all I am not getting at the carp anglers alone, I am getting at all anglers. Not only that, but there are far too many pets in the world, especially of the canine and feline kind.

I strongly would recomment that dogs and cats be heavily licenced, something like £1,000 a year at the least. This would cut the pet food industry by an enormous amount. What do we need a petfood industry for anyway?

At the same time we can ban the manufacturing of boilies and pellets. What's wrong with natural baits? Come on, tell me?

And it's the same way with some game fishers who desire bigger and bigger fish. The best stillwater trout fishing I ever experienced was when they used to stock the reservoirs with large numbers of fingerling trout and the trout grew out by eating natural food. Sure they didn't get as big as some of the pellet fed "jumbos" you see today, but they did reach 4 to 5 pounds of fighting fury!

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Now you have lost the plot Ron.

Maybe, Ray, but I'm broadly behind everything Ron says. Companies is the US and, believe it or not, Wales are trying to produce fish food pellets from vegetable and waste materials, partly because they can undercut the cost of fishmeal, so scarce have sandeel and capelin become.

The HNV thing mentioned in this thread doesn't mean you have to use fishmeal. In fact, Wilton used milk-based caseinates and eggs. Pellets are a fashion, not a necessity.

I've lost count of the number of times I have heard: "Ah, but xxxbait is catching 8 out of 10 of the big barbel/chub/carp." Which is, of course, because 8 in 10 fashionable anglers are using xxxbait! It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the bait most encountered by the fish is xxxbait and thus they have learned to accept it as food.

If we all gave up using pellets and used Plumrose again for a year, barbel would be eating Spam again. At least, that seems to be my missus theory, because the fillet steak went years ago and I've started enjoying corned beef.

And yes, that is also a euphemism....

No but you can cast a grain of maize well over 100 yards, I've done it.

I remember Fred Wilton's article "Towards The Ultimate Bait". It was in No 3, I think, of the BCSG magazine "The Carp".

Perhaps Fred's article created a monster! Perhaps Fred Wilton unbeknown, created an angling situation that is shooting itself in the foot.

Why?

Take the subject of cormorants. For eons these birds have existed in estuaries and coastal areas eating sandeels, sprats, anchovies and other fishes that populated these places in countless trillions. But the pet food industry, the agricultural feed industry, the pharmaceutical and cosmetics industries require certain types of feedstocks which can be got from pelagic fishes.

Do I have to explain further?

The boilie, fishmeal, and trout pellet industry not only use yeast extracts and milk protein such as casien, they also use the exploitation of sandeels and our small pelagic fishes which not only provide food for cod and other important food fishes, but which also provides food for birds such as the cormorant.

No wonder the cormorant comes inland and wreaks havoc with our freshwater fish stocks.

And the artificial rearing of salmon in cages to be fed by processed fishmeal is bloody madness, and the misguided governments of this world allow such things to happen!

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

Sorry mate, but it is you that have lost the plot Ray!!

Ron The Hat Clay said:

No wonder the cormorant comes inland and wreaks havoc with our freshwater fish stocks.

And the artificial rearing of salmon in cages to be fed by processed fishmeal is bloody madness, and the misguided governments of this world allow such things to happen!

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

Sorry mate, but it is you that have lost the plot Ray!!

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Ron,
The cormorants have been coming inland for over 30 years, and were at Blenheim palace when I first fished there 32 years ago.

The rearing of Salmon is a good thing, if it wasn't going on you would be asking why not.

You won't get the boilie stopped from being made, Not that I use them much, so I couldn't care one way or the other.

It's like everything the human race gets it's hands on, we bleed it dry, thats why you lost the plot Ron, you have been around long enough, and seen enough in your life to know that.

But it's time we stopped it Ray. If we stopped raping the oceans the seas and the rivers would be full of salmon.

Do we really have to bleed everything dry?

Tonto: What do you me 'we' white man??

We need a petfood industry to provide food for our pets, profits for the investors, jobs for the people the industry employs etc etc. Same with the carp bait industry etc etc. Nothing wrong with any of it.

But I understand where you are coming from Ron.

There is enough bounty on this planet for everyone. When I was at school you could stand the entire population of the planet on the Isle of Wight - and you couldn't even find that on the average football sized globe.
It's only abuse and greed that causes the shortages and only international political debate which can solve the problems. We all have to pull together; just having one country deciding to be 'green' unilaterally will do nothing. But that's never going to happen, so just remember how good it all was then just kiss it goodbye. Because Copenhagen showed that nothing is going to change.

I for one don't think there is enough Bounty for evryone, there are to many humans, thats why we take,take, take.

The Natives of America, The Red Indian had it right, that was until we came along.

Your right in what you say Ron, but have lost it if you think man kind is going to change, we are not.

If we were, then much more would have been done regarding the so called green house effect, protecting the tiger,Polar Bear etc etc, we never learn and I doubt we ever will, it's that thing called human nature.

I've never used shop-bought boilies; I just cannot bring myself to use 'someone else's' bait.

Ray Daywalker Clarke said:

I for one don't think there is enough Bounty for evryone, there are to many humans, thats why we take,take, take.

The Natives of America, The Red Indian had it right, that was until we came along.

Your right in what you say Ron, but have lost it if you think man kind is going to change, we are not.

If we were, then much more would have been done regarding the so called green house effect, protecting the tiger,Polar Bear etc etc, we never learn and I doubt we ever will, it's that thing called human nature.

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Ray,

If we are not prepared to change, we are doomed.

We only have the one planet at the moment, and the warnings signs are all there. The Asian Tsunami was one of them.

And wait for the massive famines that are coming, and the fact that this government will not do anything about the energy problem other than want to burn fossil fuels, compounding the problem.

We should have built 10 enormous new nuclear stations years ago.

Ron,

We won't change, yes we have the one planet, but we will be ok, a new ice age will kill off millions, if not all humans.

But the ice age is not mans doing.