Open to Debate - Barbed or Barbless?!

S

Stuart Dennis

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
I had this email in from Malcolm Smith, which I though I'd post here for you lot to pick the bones!!

Stuart,
maybe Carp Angler will be able to explain ,why it is that when I see carp fishermen ,they are mostly using Barbed hooks.

I feel that in this age of fishing barbed hooks should not be necessary. One reason mainly is the prevention of damage to this great sporting fish

Hi Malcolm, It's a fair question and one that would encourage debate on the forum. The reason I say this is that of late I've been talking to many anglers about the barbed, the micro barbed and the barbless. There are now many arguments for barbed hooks due to barbless cutting through the skin when the fish moves in different directions. You could liken the barbless hook to a cheese slicer in some cases, as where a barbed hook will hold fast. For the record, I'm sitting comfortably on the fence, but will post this up for gruesome feedback!!
 
A

andrew jackson

Guest
I dont like barbless hooks for carp fishing, as in my experience it is the barbless hooks that cause by far the most damage. I have seen quite nasty cuts caused by hook slip when using barbless. A phenonema that I have never seen with barbed hooks. It has to be remembered that quite often a carp hook will only penetrate to the bend, as opposed to going straight through the lip. Smaller fish have far more delacate mouths and a hook barb is far larger in proportion. For this reason when fishing for smaller species I always use barbless.
 
W

Wendy Perry

Guest
I remember when i first started fishing and didn't have a clue what barbed or barbless hooks was . When i went to my local tackle shop he SOLD me barbed and when i caught a fish on it i'll never forget thinking to myself (when i struggled to get the hook out of it's poor little mouth) that what i was doing was awful.It was only when someone pointed out to me that i was using the wrong hooks that i felt different about fishing.
As far as using them on Carp i wouldn't know i personally have never used them i wouldn't like to go through what i did when i caught that little roach .
 
C

Carp Angler

Guest
as Andy has pointed out Wendy, there's a world of diffrence between a small roach and a big carp.

When I've got time, I'll reply to this in full.
 
M

Mark Tucknott

Guest
On a personal note I've been using barbless for the last 8 years even on my French trips and in that time I doubt if I've had more than 8-10 hook pulls however, I can see good and bad arguments for both.For a start a barbless hook penertrates the Carp mouth a lot easier then a barbeb, it also requires less presure to prick the Carps mouth and obviously is a doddle to unhook. On the down side if fishing weedy waters or your fish gets snagged be it lelies or whatever you are faced with either holding tight(which could damage the Carps mouth) or putting the rod down and in 99.9% of the times lose the fish (better than damaging it)bottom line has to be providing your not breaking any rules use the hooks your happy with.
 
P

Paul Williams

Guest
Exellet start to a debate!
Personally i'm inbetween, i don't like huge barbs, they must hinder penetration but i don't feel comfortable with barbless because i hate loseing fish and i am convinced that sometimes barbless cause losses, now that might not be important on a fishery where the bites are fast and furious but on a wind swept reservoir on a winters night and one or two bites from a possible two pound roach is all that can be hoped for i want my hook to go in and stay in!.......i think Marks last sentence sums it up.
 
R

Rodney Wrestt

Guest
I always crush the barb on my hooks leaving a bump, I have heard about the barbless hook tearing the hole wider during a protracted fight with large fish. As I don't catch large carp I wouldn't know but I also crush the barbs on my pike tackle but then again I don't catch big ones of them either ;) I don't see that the barb would make that much difference to the entry point and with carefull removal using the correct equipment the extraction shouldn't cause any further damage, I crush the barbs as it makes the hook easier to remove quickly (from fish, nets and sleaves)and the baiting of the hook easier without damaging the baits (when not hair riging) as I fish for quantity most of the time so speed is essential.

It has been said that the size of the fish plays a big part on the effect the around the hook hold , I can say that the fish I hook and land put up a decent struggle for their size but by matching the termanal tackle to the size of fish I'm after and leaving the bump on the hook prevents the hole widening (IMO). Thinking about it I can see the sawing effect a barbless hook COULD have on a large powerfull fish crashing through the swim and weeds, where as in my mind the barb anchors the hook preventing it going in further and stopping the twisting and sawing action.
 
C

Chris Bishop

Guest
There's a lot to be said for using what you're confident with, whatever you fish for.
 
D

David Will

Guest
I do not like barbs on my trebles preferring to crush them.Whether these are true barbless or semis is open to intepretation but they go in and stay in but are a doddle to extract especially at night.
On other hooks it is microbarbs which most of the patterns I use are without any need for tuning. Again what I call microbarb may be different but I am comparing modern hooks to those like Au Lion D'Ors Sprites or Mustads which look horrendous to me now.
For interest not one club I have been a member of insists on barbless hooks except one on trebles only. Only one syndicate has insisted on barbless hooks but that was at the insistence of the body controlling the water.
 
M

Mike Lee

Guest
I've fished both barbed and barbless hooks due to fishery rules.
I've noticed LESS DAMAGE with barbed hooks as they tend not to twist around.
Pushing the hook away from the hookhold has always resulted in a 'clean' removal and everyone should have a set of artery forceps in their bag just in case their fingers aren't long enough.
I fall very firmly on the barbed side of the fence.
Incidently, my fave hook is the Carp R Us Nailer, size 6. Big barb on that one folks!
 
C

Chris Bishop

Guest
Dave,

I used barbless Kamasans and Patridge Z3s for years but over the last couple of seasons I've lost some really good fish which have thrown the hooks, usually on the landing net and had a lot more come off in the initial head shaking stage.

Hence back to barbed but in two minds about it for now.

I must admit I can't see how barbless hooks can cause more damage, but I know Steve Burke has banned them on his fishery because he thinks they go in deeper so have potential to cause harm with some species esp perch.

Has anyone tried these circle hooks for carp or general coarse fishing. I know Pete Waller and some of the other predator-fishing.co.uk crowd have tried them on lures and reckon they were good.

I don't really undertstand the rationale behind them but catch and release sea anglers reckon fish can't swallow them down and you get a good hook-up in the scissors off just about every bite.
 
S

stu black

Guest
most of the fish ive ever caught with damaged mouths ive had to remove barbed hooks from them, i always fish with barbless these days
 
C

Carp Angler

Guest
Ok here goes.

On soft lipped fish, a barbless hook will rotate when the angle of the line is changed and this will cause a bigger hole to open up.
The see-sawing motion widens the hole.
I have tested this on many products such as lard, cangle wax, liver, pig fat (you get the picture), this does not happen with barbed hooks.
If extracted properly, barbed hooks just leave a small exit wound.
Micro barbs are a half way house, they move more than barbed, but less than barbless.

What you have to weigh up is whether you are going to cause more damage by removing the hook than the hook itself.

This is not a newcomers/beginners thing either.
The first thing I teach anyone, is the safest, easiest and best way to remove a hook.

If you're not confident in your ability to safely remove barbed hooks, then use barbless, but don't use barbless in the mistaken reason that they cause less damage.
 
B

Brian Lewis

Guest
For some time now I've used barbless hooks in the belief that they caused less damage but what you and others have said, Rik, is making me think again.

My club allows only barbless or microbarb hooks. Maybe I should change to microbarb as the better option of the two?
 
C

Carp Angler

Guest
That's for you to decide Brian.

Personally, I only use barbless hooks for 2 reasons.
The first is if fishery rules dictate and then I try to get away with crushing down the barb on my normal hooks.
The second is when I'm catting at night with livebaits.
It means that I can unhook the bait snaffling pike without having to get them out of the water.
 
S

Stuart Dennis

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
A very interesting debate here and one I'm pleased to say is geting a thorough airing on the site. When I started fishing I used barbed hooks and then the media stepped in and showed monstrous pictures of damge to fish through barbed hooks. I then changed tactics to barbless for many many years. Never really suffered from loss of fish whilst playing, although the ocasional was lost at the net.

For the last two years I've been using barbed hooks and I'm 100% convinced that the fast hold of a barbed hook leaves less damage than a barbless. Its the thought of a cheese slicer side of things that's swayed me.

If you feel strongly about the use of barbed hooks and the lesser damage that they cause and your club has a ban on barbed hooks, then you could do worse than to print out this entire thread and present it at your next AGM.
 
R

Rodney Wrestt

Guest
Stuart,
you have made a bit of a habit of starting threads which produce excellent debate and this looks like another. I remember the media showing all these horror pictures with barbed hooks being blamed, now I'm not saying that this isn't the case but I tend to think as I said earlier that it's the unhooking procedure which is at fault rather than the hooks, Rex Hunt type grabbing and pulling and twisting with pliers of forseps?. I have seen many aquarium fish with horendous deformaties of the mouth and these are home bred 'runts'which are usually cropped from the brood by growers, maybe 5 out of a brood of 60 fish, my point is these fish can appear any where and unless it's a 'name' fish with no previous damage then you can see where I'm going with this. To be honest I don't fish venues which are pressurised and have only come accross a handfull of fish with mouth damage in all the years I've been fishing and it is possible this wasn't done by anglers.
 
S

Stuart Dennis

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
Thanks for your kind comments Rodney about my threads making great debates. You're right though, I am pretty excellent aren't I? In fact I've never met anyone in my entire life who is half as smart, half as good looking, half of anything actually! I'm just perfect in every way! Let me now put down my mirror and and stop this self pruning!

The truth is mate, Graham pays me far too much. I'm sick to death of keep taking cash out of his wallet. I don't know where all you lot get the impression he's a tight arse, I've never met such a generous man. Always first to the bar, always throwing hiscash away. In fact I'm so sick and tired of taking his cash, I've started to burn it just for fun! I had to knock it all on the head with Graham in the end, now we just exchange sexual favours!

Sorry about that, off with the fairies for a moment! In all seriousness, I think this debate deserves a great airing as the issues of barbed hooks against barbless has had me mythed for years now. Whilst fishing for carp, it'll be barbed hooks all the way for me!

BTW. is that a rod in your hand Rodney?
 
R

Rodney Wrestt

Guest
That's life in Stewartville.....back in the real world...


You'll need to get a closer view to see where the rod is as the guy is pouring a coffee...you had me looking for a wireless webcam for a minute there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top