First Big Freeze Up in 3 decades - whicich species will be most affected

DZ · Jan 19, 2010

I am wondering which of our beloved coarse fish will have suffered most this winter?

My guess is that still water fish will have had it worst.

And another guess - Tench will have died in great numbers?

Could this end the boom of the monster sized (10lb +) tinca?

I remember reading Barry Rickards' theory of why tench records escalated and it was based on the endless mild winters recorded in the 70s and 80s and 90s.

All guess work and no science behind my thoughts- thats what they are- thoughts. I hope I'm thinking wrongly.

DZ

jcp01 · Jan 19, 2010

DZ said:
I am wondering which of our beloved coarse fish will have suffered most this winter?

My guess is that still water fish will have had it worst.

I walked my daily three mile walk along the canal with the dog this morning and did not see a single dead fish. Plenty of tench in the cut too - I think they'll be OK, after all the wild fish are of strains that have been here successfully surviving far, far worse winters than this one for hundreds of thousands of years.

Look at this graph of low temperatures during teh Little Ice Age ~

File:2000 Year Temperature Comparison.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Weights might well suffer slightly but Rickards theory is just so much conjecture without a shred of proof to hold it up, it could have been due to any number of factors not least of which is carp angler's use of excessive quantities of high protein baits in summer - it can't be coincidence that the very origin of the concept of 'high protein' baits is at the beginning of Rickards time scale and tench weights reach their peak at the exact same time that carp anglers are chucking in bucket-loads ( quite literally)

Mark Wintle · Jan 19, 2010

Mild winters mean bigger fish because the fish are able to continue feeding for more months of the year instead of using reserves to survive. Tench are one of the hardiest fish and unlikely to be affected, particularly because big tench tend to be in waters with very low densities of fish as opposed to very heavily stocked commercials.

dezza · Jan 19, 2010

And remember when fish die they do not always rise to the surface. The majority sink to the bottom and are not seen.

sagalout · Jan 19, 2010

Why would any fish that is native to britain or has urvived the last couple of hundred years be affected by a fortnight of cold weather?

Get a grip man, why when I were lad.........

dezza · Jan 19, 2010

What I feel will end will be the run of monster barbel. In fact the Great Ouse may very well have to be stocked again.

sagalout · Jan 19, 2010

Ron The Hat Clay said:
What I feel will end will be the run of monster barbel. In fact the Great Ouse may very well have to be stocked again

Why, surely the barbel is an indeginous species and well used to the cold?

Fred Bonney · Jan 19, 2010

Too right !

dezza · Jan 19, 2010

sagalout said:
Why, surely the barbel is an indeginous species and well used to the cold?

They are an indigenous species, but only to a few rivers in England. I don't see a problem with the self propogation of barbel in the Trent, Yorkshire rivers and Thames, but there could be a problem in the other rivers.

tortoise100 · Jan 19, 2010

I do alot of reading on this and other sites about barbel and have to say that they seem to be the most weak population ,at risk and unlucky fish if you beleive all the hype .
But they must be pretty good at this survival game it seems to me that in pictures it is rare to see a barbel with any damage on it but chub are another matter.
That said most of my fishing last year was aimed at catching them .

I would have thought that very small fish would be at the most risk not having a large fat reserve or body mass and not having the survivability of size from other fish if they try to huddle down with the big boys.

Paul Boote · Jan 19, 2010

You know, I am not too bothered about what dies in a bit of bad weather. Okay, a few precious record or potential record fish, perhaps, (plus, far more tragically, a lot of inadequately heated, older Us), but, then, so what? Life ... Nature ... We / Them All Die Sooner or Later... Generally, the only folk who detest the destruction such of "certainties" are in the business of either selling Bait or Syndicate Places in some unsustainable dream. Ho hum.

geoffmaynard · Jan 19, 2010

I don't think anything will die from this freeze. Perhaps if we had temps low enough to freeze shallow lakes solid, perhaps then we might lose fish. Perch were the shallow lake victims around my way in 62/63. Hardly anything else suffered though. Come on! We've only had an inch or two of ice!

Paul Boote · Jan 19, 2010

Exactly. Four or five days when we (and particularly the ladies) haven't been able to wear the customary year-round T-shirt (except, of course, in Newcastle on Tyne) hardly constitutes a winter.

[Cue the "In my day..." chorus]

dezza · Jan 20, 2010

geoffmaynard said:
I don't think anything will die from this freeze. Perhaps if we had temps low enough to freeze shallow lakes solid, perhaps then we might lose fish. Perch were the shallow lake victims around my way in 62/63. Hardly anything else suffered though. Come on! We've only had an inch or two of ice!

Of course things will die Geoff, including, hopefully a lot of the "raddled old tarts" many modern anglers today call "specimens".

It's called "winterkill" and it happens to all of us.

This coming springtime will see a new birth, and hopefully a new appraisal of what a specimen fish ought to be.

geoffmaynard · Jan 20, 2010

Ron The Hat Clay said:
Of course things will die Geoff, including, hopefully a lot of the "raddled old tarts" many modern anglers today call "specimens".

It's called "winterkill" and it happens to all of us.

This coming springtime will see a new birth, and hopefully a new appraisal of what a specimen fish ought to be.

Think positive Ron and you'll get through it

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Jan 20, 2010

Ron The Hat Clay said:
They are an indigenous species, but only to a few rivers in England. I don't see a problem with the self propogation of barbel in the Trent, Yorkshire rivers and Thames, but there could be a problem in the other rivers.

Why?

Yes, the barbel is indeed indigenous to the eastern flowing rivers, but do the well established barbel in western flowing rivers know that?

Fred Bonney · Jan 20, 2010

Wye indeed?

Peter Jacobs · Jan 20, 2010

Fred Bonney said:
Wye indeed?

Wye not, I would ask . . . . ?

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) · Jan 20, 2010

I remember the the bit in the ancient story about Samson & Delilah when Delilah asked Samson where he was going fishing at the weekend....

The bad one · Jan 20, 2010

Oh dear, oh dear!
We are in a bit of pickle over this, lets put some known science to this eh!
Vegetation dies off in the autumn it starts to breakdown emitting gases, methane being the main one.
Cold water has a higher oxygen (O) content than warm water. That content is put there by wave action created by wind. Put a lid on it and that O level becomes fixed and gaseous exchange can't takes place.

The shallow the water, the less O there is in it. Add a high stock density of of large fish which have a higher O demand than smaller fish of equal numbers and the fixed O gets used up more quickly.

Resulting, in asphyxiation of said stock through lack of O and an increase in methane and other gases that cannot exchange to air.

So has this lid that nature put on caused any deaths on stillwaters so far anywhere? Well yes! it's been here in the NW for 5 weeks, and I know of fish kills on 4 different waters, all shallow with high stocks desities of CARP with other fish suffering alongside them.

Answer to this problem? Break the bloody ice every couple of days to allow gas exchange to take place.

As for Rivers, the problem is not as acute as they haven't frozen solid from source to mouth so gaseous exchange can and will take place.

First Big Freeze Up in 3 decades - whicich species will be most affected

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