One for the Carp Experts!

Definitely one for the experts

This coming Tuesday, I’ll be fishing a nine acre syndicate lake. There’s about 80-100 carp. Majority are mid doubles, about 15 twenty’s and about 6 thirty’s. There are double figure bream and double figure tench. The venue has 40 members of which half rarely fish it but just wish to keep their syndicate membership open. There is a fair amount of weed about half an acre and mostly in the margins but some in the middle. It has an average depth of about 5 feet, but with the sonar I’ve found a hole that drops to 7 feet. The sonar showed up many fishing holing up here on Tuesday this week. (you’ll know the temperature on Tuesday).

The members that do fish it do not spod (through fear of upsetting other anglers) and the lake has never seen a baitboat, although I’m allowed to use mine. Many of the fish have come out on tigers although many come out on boilies. There is oodles of natural food from shrimp to bloodworm.

I’m confident with my rigs and my baits in which I’ll use two boilies on the bottom and change accordingly through the day. I’ll be using pellet and blended particles (pigeon conditioner, maize, peanut, tigers and hemp all soaked and blended) that I’ll take out on the boat with a few loose fed boilies.

Question to experts such as Rik and Andrew is, this lake has never seen a baiting campaign due to lack of anglers and fear of spodding and no baitboats etc, is this a perfect opportunity to take advantage of this? How would you go about this? I don’t mean fill-em up with boilies, more like pile in the pellet that will dissolve and pile in the blended particles?

Your thoughts and approach are appreciated.

and....it's probably fished by only 2-3 anglers every week. An example of this, is I walked around last Saturday and no-one was on the lake. Fish rarely come out, the 30's haven't been landed for over two years now.

Advice on baiting please guys.

whats a carp expert Dennis, I've never met one in 30 odd years of carping?

The Monk raises a valid point, and I would never class myself as anything more than an adavanced learner. It doesnt matter how many years experience an angler has, we continue to learn new lessons all the time. Any angler who professes that he/she has nothing left to learn, has seriously lost the plot.
One lesson it sounds like you are going to learn the hard way is using small particle on a water with a prolific head of Bream and Tench. I may be wrong, but I cant help thinking that you could be setting yourself up for a ton up bag of bream.
If I was in your position I would stick with the boilies. My approach would be to fish what I call one fish traps, a hook bait with a scatter of bait. The reason for this is that it leaves you free to search out potential feeding areas, without piling loads of bait in all over the place. At the end of the day, you can always put more bait in but you cant take any out. Once hot areas are located then the bait can be stepped up a bit. When I am fishing a new water searching out feeding areas, I like to put out most of my bait just before I leave. This allows the fish free to feed on your baits in an un pressured situation. Another angle to this is the time of year. I would not pre bait with particle at this time of year, because I am always more confident with boilies during the colder months. If you consider that it could take a fair few weeks to start to establish a bait I would want that bait to be my winter choice. We know loads of good baits that bit is easy, but dont know anything about the water and the feeding habits of its carp.

The last time I was called Dennis, I was being bent over and smacked by the headmaster. Would you like to bend me over MONK?

Ok, please let me rephrase the question; For those who feel insecure about their 30 years of carp fishing, when I (me, myself, Stuart) refer to the term ‘carp expert’, I mean, someone I respect as a carp angler, someone who has taught me by example, someone who can look at their carp fishing outside the box and by pushing the creative envelope can apply innovative solutions to nearing impossible scenarios, someone whose advice I can trust based on past experience and guidance and more importantly someone who can offer up continuous support whilst feeling extremely embarrassed by being classed by the term ‘carp expert’ in the first place!

As Andy has already stated, none of us profess to be experts, but some of us are more learned than others, so to them we are experts (or as Stuart likes to call us, professionals) and if Harry has 30 years of carping under his belt, then why doesn't he lend his vast experience to this thread?

Back to the question, and I think Andy has probably answered as I would have done.
Starting off with a softly, softly approach and attempting to catch one fish at a time is the way I would attack this.
With little info from the other anglers to go on, then you'll need to learn the water for yourself.

The safe areas,
the feeding areas,
any patrol routes,
interception points,
contour variations,
when the naturals disappear,
prevailing wind direction,
silt build up,
and a host of other things.

part of the joy of a new water is learning all these things and then making them come together and catching because of the knowledge you've gained, not by pure luck.

I'd start with little snack traps and if small amounts of liquidised particles gives you confidence, then use that.

I must say that the thought of the tench and bream moving in had crossed my mind, but the feeding aggression of these fish (based on what I’ve been told so far) is minimum. I thought if I piled in the blended particle, the curiosity of the larger carp may move in and make a play for the boilies. Additional information for you based on your points Andrew, is that the majority who fish it stick with hookbaits and a few freebies and I want to change things around from the norm

I know it is tempting to go against the grain, our whole carp fishing instincts tell us to do so. In this particular instance anglers on the lake fish singles and a scatter, so you quite rightly want to do something different. Even if it was my master plan to bait up heavy, I would still go in softly softly initialy. If you pile the bait in and catch a few what do you learn? You have a bait boat to use to your advantage, no other angler will be able to present their bait as tight and as accuratly as you will. If you fish around with one fish traps you will isolate areas that produce far better than the surrounding lake bed. Sometimes these areas can be so small that it is phisicaly impossible to fish more than one rod to them. On some lakes this can be the difference between sucess and failiure, on others the difference between having a few and hauling big style. It appears to me that you have a superb oppertunity to take this place apart, if approached correctly. I would look at it as a long term plan, speculating to accumulate. Personaly I would be looking to reap the full rewards of the ground work in my second year on a water.

Stu - bait boats, sonar ?? What next, satellite navigation, under water camera's, why not lob in a few hand grenades and stun 'em ? Only joking.

Funnily enough I was having a beer with a friend last night. He is into his carp fishing big time and he was telling me about a water in Kent that is hardly fished (I think its on some estate, but its NOT an estate lake).

His view was that he had pre-baited for some months (boilies) but when he first fishes it (in the next few weeks), he will start with a hook bait and bag of pellets or, aghast, use the method, but nothing else. He was only going to lay down a heavy bed of particles once he was confident they had switched on to his boilies (Activ-8) and he knew a bit more about how the water fishes.

Sounded sensible to me, but what the hell do I know?!?

By the way, on Sat night I found a piece of paper in my pocket with a bait companies name and ?30 scrawled on it. Was this from the charity event and have they been paid? If so, I'll grab the stuff, if they haven't been paid, put it into the coffers for the next event.

Good luck.......oh, and congrats by the way, how is the little one??

The little one is fine thanks Su. Makes a change you having a beer last night? and I believe you should grab the bit quick mate!

Thanks for the help here Andrew, I must admit, my initial instincts were to attack and take apart with admittedly not much thought for the long term goal. The feedback on here has helped me enormously (so cheers boys) and I’ll be changing my game plan accordingly. I’ll focus on accuracy and presentation after scouring with the boat with two rods and then the third, I’ll just play around with the bait. I’ll start slow with the blended particles and keep a watchful eye, then top up on results of runs. Much appreciated and I’ll post on here my end results and the methods I opted for thru the session after the trip. Here’s a point for you: although I read a lot, I don’t think I’ve ever come across an article about long term baiting/fishing strategies over 12-24 months. Any chance an article can be put together by the two of you?

or Stu, unless you prefer su of course?

Apologies Stuart,I didnt have my glasses on(dont mind giving you a spanking but I would prefer your sister) , if I learnt anything over the years its to read everything you can get your hands on, most of my big fish have been caught through sheer luck and just being there, I even doubt my own theories at times, too many variables involved, you are more than welcome to any knowledge on carp I have, although there are many with much more, i no longer beat myself up trying to work out how to catch carp, I simply go for the pleasure, which is what fishing has got to be about, I've even given up a good swim, if I've had a spot of luck, it gives me a great pleasure to see others catch especially the kids!

Call me what you want mate. But if its Su dont expect any sexual favours......

Like you Monk I read and research all the time and if I'm welcome to your knowledge that's brilliant. So, how about having a go at my original question as I'd appreciate any and all feedback I can get on this one.

Stuart I would go with a completely open mind uncluttered by all the many theories you might get on here.No one in their right mind would advise anyone how to fish a lake they've not seen. 'It ain't rocket science' and a result on a first trip will be a bonus.
Good luck.

Thanks for the good luck token David, but, I’m not sure if I agree with your post. The intention of this thread is to establish other peoples approaches to the challenge set out in front of me. If a hundred tips are posted as suggestions and I feel I can use only one to my advantage, then surely that’s one more than I had in the first place?

When I originally wrote the question, I was fully aware that unless any of the contributors had fished the venue, (which I’m sure they wouldn’t have) they would be steering me forward with one eye shut, but, even with just one eye your’e able to partially see the wood for the trees!

Keep-em coming please…

david is quite right of course, but to quote walker, first find your fish, there's a lot on meaning in this, and watercraft is something which is largely neglected by a lot of modern day carp anglers, go back to basics, I dont mean break out the old alasticum wire or anything, but try visiting the place early morning or at dusk, just one rod with a float on, a hand full of hemp and some luncheon meat, check out the margins for smoke screeners and bubblers, wspend a long time watching before you put any bait in or your line, a well presented bait, in the right place at the right time is worth days sat behind a battery of rods aimed to the horizon, you really need to find the fish first, 9 acres isnt a large are for the amount of caRP YOU DEsCRIBE, FORGET THE HAIRS AND BOLT RIGS AT THIS POINT, all have their place, just blend in with nature, creep about a little and see what you find, you may be quite amazed at the results. sometimes a handfull of hemp in the margins as you are leaving will bring results the next morning, ther really are so many variables though, I'm just decribing my approach from the information you have supplied, on any new water you need to check out the top guns, pick their brains and basically have a walk round, be quite and sit and watch for a while and remeber what you have read, sorry I cant be more helpful stuart, keep it simple at first mate

sorry about the spelling stuart, I cant find me glasses!

Stuart all i can say is that those I see chopping and changing , turning up with no real idea of what they are going to do and not really trying out a theory they have read about usually fail.I have watched people try a zig rig for twenty minutes before changing back to a bottom bait then to a method feeder and so on.This is how we have ended up with so many 'how to do' magazines , they rely on the fact that people chop and change at the slightest hint of whatever worked last time is not working this week.
I just think that from your obvious sharp mind and your'e desire to succeed you are quite capable of going to this water and over a period of time working out what is best.
As i said before instant success is not going to occur often enough but long term is the key.

I couldn’t agree with you more David (wow, did I really write that!), I know that information is power and all that, but I (like you) fear with the growth of these ‘how to’ magazines there can be just a tad too much information to assimilate. You just get comfy with a rig and method, then you pick up a magazine and read the latest killer method that worked on a particular venue and then the chopping and changing commences. It’s taken me three years to become confident in my rigs, methods and baits and now that I am, I certainly won’t be changing because a new method took a different venue apart! I’m always up for improving what I’m using but this change will be based on the venue and surrounding clues offered up by what’s surrounding me.

I’m lucky, I’ve got anglers around me like Cakey who will use the same bait and rigs for a whole season and not look at changing them except for the reasons I gave here. Whilst these old gits are around me and continuous encourage me (nag like F~~k) to field test for pro-longed periods what I use, I’ll be using what I’ve got and what I know gives me results! If I could give any advice to my fellow improvers on here, it’d be quite simply ‘there are no shortcuts to the apprenticeship’ although lady luck can play a big part!

I’m all packed and ready to go for my session first detailed at the head of this thread. I will be experimenting at this first syndicate session and will let you know how I get on in a couple of days! Cheers All!