yes your quite right carp angler, we used to use the Fred Wilton stuff after it first got publicised in the orange BCSG mag (Towards the Ultinate Bait), lot of constrovasy about it at the time, I dont think the word boilie had been coined in those days, we used to call them skimmed baits, because we used to boil them in order to put a skin on them, they did break down however, but some of these shelve lifes are a whole new ball game!