Bait...does it matter?

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

After last nights bait discussions, do people think bait really matters on the majority of lakes these days? I'll state that I do use what I consider to be a good food bait, but when there are so many different baits going into lakes these days, how does a carp know which bait did it good after its picked up 20 different ones?

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

Although I am believer in that Carp will go for the nutritional option when survial is paramount, however, would you go for a dry leaf salad when a kebab or chip butty is on offer!

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

Point is though, how do they know which the nutritional one was? In your case Stuart, it sounds like your not really competing with other anglers, so you can make a difference. But on a lake with 30 people fishing, with 30 different baits?

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

This is true Dave, but I used to compete on venues that were baited with everything and anything. I followed the route, used pretty much the same as everyone else, but with slight variations. I'd catch as much as the next man, but rarely much more. I was fishing a mid Kent water and everyone was piling in the same or similar baits and I just changed tactics around. I left my gear on the lakeside with a friend and went over to my tackle dealer and picked out a bait flavour that reversed the norm. That afternoon and night, I took the place apart whilst those around me blanked. I couldn't say I follow the nutritional values to a tee, but I know the difference between crap and stodgy. I've had excellent success on baits that are a completely different smell and colour from the norm and have stuck by the theory that whatever everyone else does, do the exact opposite. I really do believe this way. The problem with newcomers to the sport (which I was just three years ago) is one of confidence. If everyone around them is catching on a regular bait, then that’s an automatic confidence and beginners will follow suit. A vicious circle in fact. You’ve got to be brave to test new baits as a newcomer because the little confidence you have will come from the norm. But bit by bit, these guys will break away from the pack and leave their mark. In doing so their catches will increase and their confidence will soar through the roof.

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

My theory to your question Dave is that perhaps it’s down to seasons in that I’d imagine through the hotter months that carp will risk eating all and everything put in front of them, but when stocking up for the winter, will pay more attention to nutritional value. As the colder months set in, they wont be eating much and just a few (if that) boilies in 24 hours which they will assess the goodness whilst going through their system and pay dividends to experience.

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

But isn't it the other way around? Food is plentiful in the summer, so they can be choosy. Not so much in the winter, so they have to get what they can.

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

You ask, 'How does a carp know what has nutritional value and what doesn’t'. Perhaps we credit these fish with more intelligence than ourselves. From face value, we know that a fish salad will be better for us than a plate of greasy chips. (and even that was taught to us via research). But if you sat me down with two identical plates of Chicken Tikka Massala and told me one has 10,000 calories and the other has 200 calories and has additional nutritional value, there is no way I could tell you what was what from face value. Now if I’m up all night throwing up and then I wake up and I’ve put 10lb of fat or I feel fine and have bundles more energy the next day, then I might be able to tell you what was the best for my system.
But I would only be able to tell you based on experience and of course the after the food had entered my system. Do I think a carp can tell you whether a bait has nutritional value before digesting it, then my answer is no. Do I think a carp can tell whether a bait has nutritional value after eating, then my answer is yes. There is a good rain of thought here, that would be interesting to follow through. (and I don’t mean the Chicken Tikka)

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

There is a flip to your post (IMHO) in thatwe are advised by experts to put a fractio of the bait in, in the winter than what you'd put in i the summer...

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

"Food is plentiful in the summer, so they can be choosy. Not so much in the winter, so they have to get what they can"
Not sure about this one mate, because if it was down to the carp getting what they can, then I'd be taking lakes apart every winter!

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

But they dont need as much in the winter as their metabolism slows down, and theyve had good food in the summer. perhaps we should use "crap" baits in the summer so they still need fulfilling nutritionally?

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

There's an opportunity here for the opportunist me finks! Why does their metabolism slow down? Why don’t they need as much in the winter? No doubt there are many reasons wrapped up in the climate side of things etc, but a small slither of this could also be down to the fact that our fair weathered anglers are wrapped up warm at home and that only a tiny percentage of the baits that go in in the summer, go in in the winter. Your thoughts? See where I’m going? Why is that some lakes fish right through the winter and some don’t? This can’t all be down to climates and may well be down to baits going habitually, hence metabolisms not slowing down!

GrahamM · Sep 26, 2002

The simple answer is that fish are cold-blooded creatures whose own temperature fluctuates with that of the water temperature. Once winter has set in they adjust to feeding in cold water, but rarely to the same degree they feed in summer. They may have the occasional binge when the temperature and other factors come together, but generally feed less often.

This is because the knock-on effect means they don't move around so much and therefore use less energy and wihin that equation is the fact that less energy expended means less fuel needed to maintain life.

Which all points to whatever bait you're using having less appeal in winter, generally speaking, than it does in summer.

Feeding has to begin with appetite.

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

Being cold blooded, bait cant stop the "hibernating" instinct, but thats not to say they wont feed. I'm trying to create little areas that they will goto if they want to feed, and not have too much bait there when i'm fishing, so they "have" to take the hookbait. Single hookbaits work in the "well its there, i might as well eat it" - bit like even if you've just had a meal, somebody sticks a bowl of peanuts in front of you, you'll eat it cause you like the taste

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 26, 2002

Fish don't have a stomach which digests food in the same way as people, they don't use acids etc. They have a cavity which processes the food they eat using enzimes, these enzimes are less efficient and lower in numbers at lower temperatures and this is why fish eat less in lower temperatures, they can't process it as fast as they do in warmer weather.

Stuart Dennis · Sep 26, 2002

If there are little or no naturals availble in the winter and no other boilies or baits are being offered, then yes all will be quiet, but if bait is being introduced, even in tiny quantities throughout this period, then surely this must prolong the hibernation process slightly?
I'm off fishing now before I'm converted into hanging me rods up for the winter!

shaun rexworthy · Sep 26, 2002

Fish in rivers have to eat through winter to provide the with energy to cobate the flow.

GrahamM · Sep 26, 2002

Those waters that continue to receive bait through winter will indeed keep the carp more inclined to feed. It's the same with the garden pond, keep the pellets going in and the fish will, most not-so-severe days, have a few. But stop the feed and they'll survive quite happily on nothing (except naturals) all through winter.

Rodney Wrestt · Sep 26, 2002

Stuart,
It won't matter how little you feed if the fish has a body cavity full of part digested food which is taking days rather than hours to be passed through, the fish won't want more food clogging up it's insides (as you said earlier about the chicken tikka massala, would you want another portion while getting rid of the first?). Naturals on the other hand are smaller and mostly water when crushed and are easily digested or passed through, so perhapse worms would be a better (though non selective) choice for a winter bait? A slight rise in water temp will help the enzimes speed up and the fish will then search out more food, but who knows if it will want another gutfull of boillies, as they say fish know when the weather is going to change and tey learn by experience.

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

Thats why some people switch to birdfoods - very coarse bait which are very difficult for a fish to properly digest, so they pass straight thru - you can tell this 'cause the fish are crapping the bait out in the net normally. Taste it-see if its yours!!

Dave Rothery · Sep 26, 2002

Come to think of it Stu- your talking about using tigers on one rod - are you planning on continuing to pre-bait them? Even during the summer they take 3 or 4 passes thru the gut to fully digest, most lakes are probably "covered" in tigers (goes back to my gravel arguement....) as they get spread by the fish.

Bait...does it matter?

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