The Golden Barbel Club

I believe the group may have formed at the turn of the 20th Century, does anyone have any information?

Sorry that should read 19th Century!

Schilbe banguelensis, the Golden Barbel, is found in South Africa and the Congo. (According to one of my books)

Does that help?

I think you'll find that the "golden barbel" is in fact the Small Mouth Yellowfish (Barbus holubi) which is idigenous to the Orange/Vaal river system of South Africa.

I don't know of a species: "Schibe banguelesis" in South Africa.

The Small mouth yellowfish is truly one of the great sporting fishes of the world, whos habitat has been partially destroyed by river impoundments and almost wholly destroyed by those evil excuses for fish, Cyprinus carpio.

In terms of African conditions, the only good carp is a dead carp!!

Ron

Did a search on the 'net as well. Have a look at:
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=9379

Hmmm, never ever heard of the Golden Barbel Club.
There is a Golden Scale Club though.

Do a google search on small mouth yellowfish. You will find a website detailing this fabulous species.

They are truly a gorgeous fish. How anyone can object to the wholesale slaughter of vermin carp to protect these jewels of our planets rivers beats me.!!!

You really don't learn do you Ron.

Neither do you mate!!!

Explain then....

Ron

Carp is intensively farmed in Czech to supply two large markets. One - for stocking the rivers and lakes for the anglers (who knock them on the head and take them home), and two - to supply the many non-anglers who like to eat this fish.

As far as I know, there has been no diminishing of natural species. However, it's not my field. But the Czechs do take their environment seriously, and monitor the flora, fauna, etc.

If any species, Carp for example, is introduced to new waters, and the natural eco-balance is unbalanced, then I can see a requirement for the possible removal of the new species.

I can explain this but it would take me a full article to do so. I lived in Southern Africa for 27 years and I have seen with my own eyes the devastating effect of carp infestation on the indigenous species of that area of the world

I do not have access to my own computer so that I am severely limited as to the length and nature of the posts I can put out.

Suffice to say that when I emigrated to SA I was a carp enthusiast and spent nearly 7 years in search of this species. In time I learned just how much damage they had done to the wild waters and indigenous fish there.

There certainly are many parts of the world where this extremely destructive species should not have been introduced.

Now why didn't youput that in your first post.
Genuine, balanced and thought out.

Constantly saying that carp should be slaughtered with little or no explaination is woefully wrong and will incur the wrath of those amongst us who treat ALL fish with respect.

There are people in this country who believe that the barbel population should be wiped out because it destroyed the natural roach stocks on most rivers.
If they came on the site and said that all barbel should be killed and left to rot up the banks, then everyone would be up in arms about it.

If they gave a thought out and balanced argument that said that the introduction of barbel in certain rivers was to the detriment of other species, without getting too emotive, then a discussion would be forthcoming.

Alienating certain groups of anglers seems to give you some kind of perverse pleasure.

I reckon Ron is trying it on a bit here.

when he can't be on the bank, he is fishing for a 'bite' elsewhere......

OK, I did promise not to bring this subject up again, however Br Nicholas raised a subject that led onto the Small Mouth Yellowfish of South Africa - one of the truly most delightful species I have ever had the priviledge to pursue. I true wild fish found in the wild rivers of Southern Africa. The scientific name has changed by the way to Barbus aeneus.

B. aeneus photos can be viewed on www.flyshop.co.za, together with a detailed description of this fish. It is closely related to our B. vulgaris.

The habitat of this species has been destroyed in parts of the system, mainly by the proliferation of carp, as well as the building of impoundments and dams along the Upper Vaal River. Like our barbel, it needs clear fast water flowing over gravel to spawn. Not only that but B. aeneus only becomes sexually mature at the age of about 7 years.

If you had lived for the length of time that I have, in a part of the world where carp have done so much damage Rik, then I feel you would have a different opinion of them.

Carp in SA, can, due to the average water temperature, spawn up to 4 times in a year. Their feeding habits cause the water to become turbid. You see this happen in UK too.

Barbel, roach and other species have lived in harmony for many years in the rivers of the UK where barbel were endemic, ie most easterly flowing English rivers, eg Trent, Thames, Don, Yorks Ouse and tributaries. I have often thought that the introduction of the barbel into the Severn system as well the Hants Avon and Dorset Stour may have been wrong, although they certainly have not affected the roach fishing in these waters.

It is, I think important to consider the following fact:

Barbel, and all our other species are naturally occuring English species that have been here and have evolved here for hundreds of thousands of years.

Carp, are today, nothing like the original wild carp of Asia, if indeed such fish has ever existed. They have been selectively bred by man over thousands of years, primarily for food, just in the same way that pigs, cattle and sheep have.

On that score we should avoid classifying this species as something wonderful, although I have nothing against those anglers who wish to persue them.

Kept in their place (and that is vitally important), carp are fine. But somehow to mmy mind, the persuit of a true wild fish in it's natural habitat is the ultimate angling experience.

Wow what a thread, your going shoot me for this guys but I obvisoulsly haven,t explained myself properly, some interesting stuff in here though!

What I'm actually asking about is not a golden barbel, but the Golden Barbel Club, not to be confused with the golden scale club of recent years, the Golden Barbel Club was apparently a british Club formed in the early 1900's to serve the british Barbus species, it was I suppose a forrunner to the Barbel Catchers, although years before. A few earlier specialist groups did exist in the earlier years of fishing, The Perch Fishing Club is an example of this, this, the Perchfishing Club is not to be confused with the early Perchfishers Club of the sixties or indeed the current Perchfishers which is a different group, the Tenchfishers is another example of earlier groups, the current Tenchfishers is not the 1954 formed Tenchfishers. I think the Red Spinners was also one of the earlier specialist groups, its just that I have an interest in groups, sorry for any confusion.

On the thread itself, apologies if I have started another war between my learned friends Ron and Rik, although both have good points and I realise were each one of them are coming from.

carp however are omnivorous and will, if allowed , wipe out indiginous species out in countries which they proliferate, because of this they are treated as vermin and I can understand the need for ecological cullin, it has to be remembered however that it was mans fault for introducing them in the first place, albeit for food purposes.

The Carp in Britian however has many dedicated followers who give the specie great respect from a conservation view point, because of the respect carp anglers give to the specie, it is reasonable that anglers will be offended if the specie is referred to as vermin.

So everybody kiss and make up again and I'll try to be more sopecific next time I post, sorry!

" ... I'll try to be more sopecific next time I post ..."

I thought you said 'soporific' for a moment!

Just a point here Br Nicholas.

The popularity of carp fishing today in the UK is probably due originally to **** Walker.

However in 1978, Walker warned us all of the dangers of mass carp populations in his Angling Times column.

Even he learned the truth in time.

He did Ron he did, I remember that mate, didnt really realise what he was saying at the time though, but he was right however!

dont know what I said Ian? have to re read me thread, have to get the dictionary out for that though one mate, I think your a bit brighter than me?