The end of democracy and freedom of speech?

dezza

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Well let me explain.

A little while ago a letter-to-the-editor of mine was published in the magazine: "Total Fly Fishing". This letter was in response to an article written by well known fly fisherman: Steve Parton, who openly criticised trout fly match fishing.

I added a couple of comments of my own in general agreement to Steve's piece and left it at that. It was interesting in that I was awarded the Letter-of-the-month for this.

Recently, the subject of match fly fishing, obviously prompted by Steve's piece, has been heatedly debated in the "Fly Fishing Forums" the sister website to FM. Of course I was involved (as I often do), and as a result I thought it might be appropriate to list the reasons why I do not like match fishing for trout with a fly rod. This was a personal opinion of mine, written using my own name - no pseudonyms - under the title: Why I don't like competitive fly fishing?" I also made it clear that it was not the anglers who partake in match fly fishing that I didn't like, only what they do.

I fully expected to be taken apart of course, and certainly the thread attracted a very large response, so large that I was unable to read all the posts there were so many.

A few of the posts were extremely rude, and of course such posts were written from behind a pseudonym - they always are.

After reading just a few of the responses, I went for a couple of hours fishing. Whilst fishing I mentally prepared a response to my critics.

Getting back to the computer, I was quick to notice that the two threads had been removed and a message awaited me under "private messages". The message which was written by "Admin", told me that my thread had "wound up quite a few members". It also said: "We have quite a few members who are part of various competition fly fishing teams and "feathers had been ruffled.""

At no time did I set out to insult anyone. The language I used was not even as strong as that used in Parliament. However a couple of replies to my thread were written in lots of asterisks and quite franky were very base indeed.

Yet I have not been allowed to answer my critics. In fact I have been told NOT to create a thread based on this subject again!

I have been posting on Fishing websites for over 10 years, 9 1/2 of them on FM where I have close to 28,000 posts, many original threads and a fair number of articles. I have never in that period had any thread started by myself removed.

I have also helped organise a number of FM events, some of which have been involved with fly fishing.

The reason for this thread is mainly so that I can defend myself in a small way. I hope someone does read it before it gets stamped on, because as sure as eggs are eggs, that is what is going to happen when "Admin" whoever he or she is, sees this thread.
 
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preston96

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Well let me explain.

A little while ago a letter-to-the-editor of mine was published in the magazine: "Total Fly Fishing". This letter was in response to an article written by well known fly fisherman: Steve Parton, who openly criticised trout fly match fishing.

I added a couple of comments of my own in general agreement to Steve's piece and left it at that. It was interesting in that I was awarded the Letter-of-the-month for this.

Recently, the subject of match fly fishing, obviously prompted by Steve's piece, has been heatedly debated in the "Fly Fishing Forums" the sister website to FM. Of course I was involved (as I often do), and as a result I thought it might be appropriate to list the reasons why I do not like match fishing for trout with a fly rod. This was a personal opinion of mine, written using my own name - no pseudonyms - under the title: Why I don't like competitive fly fishing?" I also made it clear that it was not the anglers who partake in match fly fishing that I didn't like, only what they do.

I fully expected to be taken apart of course, and certainly the thread attracted a very large response, so large that I was unable to read all the posts there were so many.

A few of the posts were extremely rude, and of course such posts were written from behind a pseudonym - they always are.

After reading just a few of the responses, I went for a couple of hours fishing. Whilst fishing I mentally prepared a response to my critics.

Getting back to the computer, I was quick to notice that the two threads had been removed and a message awaited me under "private messages". The message which was written by "Admin", told me that my thread had "wound up quite a few members". It also said: "We have quite a few members who are part of various competition fly fishing teams and "feathers had been ruffled.""

At no time did I set out to insult anyone. The language I used was not even as strong as that used in Parliament. However a couple of replies to my thread were written in lots of asterisks and quite franky were very base indeed.

Yet I have not been allowed to answer my critics. In fact I have been told NOT to create a thread based on this subject again!

I have been posting on Fishing websites for over 10 years, 9 1/2 of them on FM where I have close to 28,000 posts, many original threads and a fair number of articles. I have never in that period had any thread started by myself removed.

I have also helped organise a number of FM events, some of which have been involved with fly fishing.

The reason for this thread is mainly so that I can defend myself in a small way. I hope someone does read it before it gets stamped on, because as sure as eggs are eggs, that is what is going to happen when "Admin" whoever he or she is sees this thread.


Ron, that is why a few of us are so against the manner that "some" mods are working.......................we will probably never ever see the likes of GM's FM again.
 

Tilman Bieselt

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Maybe it was just a poor decision on the moderators´side. That does happen and maybe he intended the best for the peace of the board ?

I can only guess and i hope it really happened that way, otherwise it would be really frightening.
 

quickcedo

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I personally love to see threads which open the preverbial can of worms. Not I hasten to add for people to get irrate and abusive but, despite popular belief I don't have all the answers and my opinion is just that, my opinion. I like debate which has the potential to change my mind on any given subject for that is how I learn and evolve as a fisherman and a person. Without threads which stir the mind and perhaps change a few opinions all that's left is the "what's the best bait for...." threads. Mostly dull but informative.
 

Ray Daywalker Clarke

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Ron,

I wouldn't worry about it mate, just send a reply to admin telling them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Before you do this, post a thread, saying your bit, if they don't like it, then they can delete it, at least you get your say, because someone will see it before the mods act.

You haven't lost freedom of speach at all, thats what they want you to think, and be not posting a reply on a new thread, thats just what you are giving them, and by not giving a reply, you have taken your own freedom of speach away.
 

dezza

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Ray,

They have told me in words of one syllabel NOT to post another thread which refers to this subject again. They will obviously delete it and I don't want to cause any problems for FM.

As Brummie says, control of FM could move to the "Dark Side" now that GM has gone!

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Ed I like "ruffling feathers". It's often the only way we can get a subject debated.
 
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preston96

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Ron,

I wouldn't worry about it mate, just send a reply to admin telling them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Before you do this, post a thread, saying your bit, if they don't like it, then they can delete it, at least you get your say, because someone will see it before the mods act.

You haven't lost freedom of speach at all, thats what they want you to think, and be not posting a reply on a new thread, thats just what you are giving them, and by not giving a reply, you have taken your own freedom of speach away.


Cant agree with you this time Ray........if Ron wasn't offensive and had a genuine thought as to why he didn't like competition fishing then removing his thread was removing his right to freedom of speach.

If the owners and or "admin" do not want a public debate the perhaps they should think carefully about investing in a public forum based site?

I promised a friend i wouldn't divulge something really pathetic arising from "Admin".........but lets just say that i know of an instance were ones freedom of speach has had veiled threats.

If "admin" is reading this, please take note......please be careful during selection ;)
 

Neil Maidment

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Recently, the subject of match fly fishing, obviously prompted by Steve's piece, has been heatedly debated in the "Fly Fishing Forums" the sister website to FM. Of course I was involved (as I often do), and as a result I thought it might be appropriate to list the reasons why I do not like match fishing for trout with a fly rod. This was a personal opinion of mine, written using my own name - no pseudonyms - under the title: Why I don't like competitive fly fishing?" I also made it clear that it was not the anglers who partake in match fly fishing that I didn't like, only what they do.

Whilst I somewhat agree with your comments Ron, you went "fishing" on Flyforums and hooked an awful lot of people. But mainly because your Thread Title was not quite as you state... your title said "hate" not "don't like". That wound up a whole lot of people!

You're never one to understate an opinion... title of this thread is a point in case!

But I do agree with the sentimemt, it was a good thread and would probably have lasted a much longer time on here than on FlyForums.

Perhaps it's because Flyforums is so much bigger than FM that the assembled "royalty" on there get a bit up themselves some times!
 

preston96

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Whilst I somewhat agree with your comments Ron, you went "fishing" on Flyforums and hooked an awful lot of people. But mainly because your Thread Title was not quite as you state... your title said "hate" not "don't like". That wound up a whole lot of people!

You're never one to understate an opinion... title of this thread is a point in case!

But I do agree with the sentimemt, it was a good thread and would probably have lasted a much longer time on here than on FlyForums.

Perhaps it's because Flyforums is so much bigger than FM that the assembled "royalty" on there get a bit up themselves some times!

I hate litter louts Neil.....does that make my statement wrong? ;)
 

dezza

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"Hate" "Don't Like", means the same thing to me.

As regards many of the keen fly match anglers, well some are my friends. I have nothing against them fishing in matches at all. The problem I have is the mayhem that is caused when a match is being held on what should be a peaceful reservoir.

You have to go there to experience it.

And I hate it.

I wish it had never been invented!
 

Neil Maidment

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...and a second subsequent thread was started and continued with.... "why I hate Ron Clay hates.... etc etc".

So I hope they got similar PMs from "Admin".

Flyforums is a superb forum and incredibly active, far more so than FM. The Mods have an interesting task in monitoring an open forum, they make mistakes.. don't we all.

Paul, probaby not but "hate" is a strong and evocative word, overused and misused by many.
 

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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I hate litter louts Neil.....does that make my statement wrong? ;)


There's a difference in being a litter lout, and being a competetive fly angler ......

Everyone hates litter louts ..... but there's nothing wrong with competetive fly fishing

In fact Ron has run a competetive fly fishing match (Press Manor) himself -- so he's being a little hypocritical isn't he
 

preston96

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Maybe Ed..........but deleting him? i cant go with that..............argue for the competive fly fisher by all means but don't delete.
 

dezza

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...and a second subsequent thread was started and continued with.... "why I hate Ron Clay hates.... etc etc".

So I hope they got similar PMs from "Admin".

Flyforums is a superb forum and incredibly active, far more so than FM. The Mods have an interesting task in monitoring an open forum, they make mistakes.. don't we all.

Paul, probaby not but "hate" is a strong and evocative word, overused and misused by many.

And I was never even given the chance to read that thread Neil.

But you must admit Neil, there are far too many people using pseudonyms on FF.

I even got a very arrogant private email from a psuedo character, telling me my fortune and how I must not upset people in future.

No name of cause, haven't got a clue who this silly peanut is; so typical of many of them on this site.

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

Ed,

Our little fun competition just does not compare with the massive, noisy "galas" that take place with hideous regularity on reservoirs such as Grafham and Rutland.

Maybe I can get Steve Parton to explain just why competitive match fly fishing has ruined angling on reservoirs over the years.
 

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)

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Like the reply you got below when you told them what an expert you are in Opera ....



QUOTE:

"A Night At The Opera With Ron Clay
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
Sorry... after reading this one, I've had to go and change my underpants. I cant imagine a more incongruous clash of taste and ignorance...

You've just settled down into your seat for an evening of culture and civilised entertainment. The orchestra are in the pits about to strike up the overture, the easy murmur of subdued voices betrays the anticipation of an eager audience, and your delightful companion rests her appreciative head gently on your shoulder. Yes sirree... this is it boy, you have arrived in polite scociety...

As the lights dim the faintest smell of exclusive perfume mingles with... with Jesus H Christ!!!... what the hell is that smell?!
eek.gif
Your companion's pretty nose wrinkles violently, she looks askance at you, and your own throat spasms and gags... but in amongst the confusion of it all, a distant recollection... that day... when against your better judgement you dropped in at that grotty little put and take in South Yorks and that irksome character who blathered on about **** Walker. It's all coming back to you now... but you daren't turn round... you've caught the silhouette glimpse of the flat cap in the corner of your eye, and the overpowering stench of stale ferret p1ss and pontefract cakes confirm the worst.

"Did ah tell tha' 'ow I taught Pavarotti t'wipe his backside? I told 'im if he listened to my advice he could end up talkin' through it too"

PS... nothing against Yorkshiremen honestly "
 

preston96

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I even got a very arrogant private email from a psuedo character, telling me my fortune and how I must not upset people in future.

NO!!!????.....some folk really think they are something :wh

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------

Like the reply you got below when you told them what an expert you are in Opera ....



QUOTE:

"A Night At The Opera With Ron Clay
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
Sorry... after reading this one, I've had to go and change my underpants. I cant imagine a more incongruous clash of taste and ignorance...

You've just settled down into your seat for an evening of culture and civilised entertainment. The orchestra are in the pits about to strike up the overture, the easy murmur of subdued voices betrays the anticipation of an eager audience, and your delightful companion rests her appreciative head gently on your shoulder. Yes sirree... this is it boy, you have arrived in polite scociety...

As the lights dim the faintest smell of exclusive perfume mingles with... with Jesus H Christ!!!... what the hell is that smell?!
eek.gif
Your companion's pretty nose wrinkles violently, she looks askance at you, and your own throat spasms and gags... but in amongst the confusion of it all, a distant recollection... that day... when against your better judgement you dropped in at that grotty little put and take in South Yorks and that irksome character who blathered on about **** Walker. It's all coming back to you now... but you daren't turn round... you've caught the silhouette glimpse of the flat cap in the corner of your eye, and the overpowering stench of stale ferret p1ss and pontefract cakes confirm the worst.

"Did ah tell tha' 'ow I taught Pavarotti t'wipe his backside? I told 'im if he listened to my advice he could end up talkin' through it too"

PS... nothing against Yorkshiremen honestly "

But if we delete him Ed......wheres the banter gonna come from? :D
 

geoffmaynard

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I absolutely LOVE fishing related debate that gets people all fired up. It what these forums are for. I loved that recent climate change one and the otters have potential too - the only thing is that you MUST abide by the rules, and if you do that you'll keep the thread going. And as Neil says, sometimes mods make mistakes - so would you if you had the job because we are all human. Well apart from Woody - and that's only on full moons anyway. :)

I get really cheesed off sometimes that I can't get into politics on here - but them's the rules and they are there for a reason.
As for GMs FM...sigh... GM is still considered the guvn'r around here and you really won't see any difference.
 

Steve Spiller

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Over moderation could spell the beginning of the end............

We are ALL entitled to our opinions, as long as we aren't offensive or abusive then that is surely what a debate is about? If individual mods can't see that or deal with that, then it's time to re-evaluate ones role as a mod.....

Or see the members walk away, due to over moderation...........

FM's mods are fantastic I have to say, 99% of them have my complete respect for the job they do.........

Which happens to be unpaid, so hats off to you all.
 
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