Paternoster or running rig?
- Thread starter Tim Birch
- Start date
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Dave Barringham
Guest
Fixed paternoster. Without doubt. 6"-12" lead link and whatever tail length you decide upon. Making the lead link shorter will increase the 'bolt' effect.
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john conway
Guest
If you use a running leger with a 6” to 12” dropper to the bomb or swim-feeder, then the detection is the same as a fixed paternoster, with no trailing weight if you get busted. I’d seriously think of this type of rig if you are fishing a mixed fishery where your target fish is smaller than some of the resident carp.
The running rig has very little bolt effected, unless the tension set in the line by the quiver tip is minimal i.e. very little deflection of the quiver. If you want as little bolt effect as possible then use a swing tip which limits you to very slow moving rivers or still waters only.
The running rig has very little bolt effected, unless the tension set in the line by the quiver tip is minimal i.e. very little deflection of the quiver. If you want as little bolt effect as possible then use a swing tip which limits you to very slow moving rivers or still waters only.
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Jeremy Airey
Guest
Mr Birch
Fixed pat. no doubt.
Pleases remember though that all "Fixed" paternosters should have some way for the lead/feeder (link) to free itslf other wise you could end up tethering a fish after a bust-up or crack-off.
regards
Jeremy Airey
Fixed pat. no doubt.
Pleases remember though that all "Fixed" paternosters should have some way for the lead/feeder (link) to free itslf other wise you could end up tethering a fish after a bust-up or crack-off.
regards
Jeremy Airey
Thank you for your views they are all very appreciated.
I must agree with regards to paternoster especially in winter, its the only one which seems to work at the moment.
Do you think I would be correct in saying that fish are more likely to mouth the bait in winter and not move too much (much like crucians) therefore making long leader running rigs less effective?
I must agree with regards to paternoster especially in winter, its the only one which seems to work at the moment.
Do you think I would be correct in saying that fish are more likely to mouth the bait in winter and not move too much (much like crucians) therefore making long leader running rigs less effective?
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john conway
Guest
Tim are we talking river or still water?
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john conway
Guest
Most of my still water experience is limited to the close season and consequently the warmer weather. On the rivers, my own experience re the cold is that any sudden drop in temp tends to put the fish down and any increase generally brings them on. Re mouthing the bait in winter I can?t say that I could specifically put this down to the cold but more likely to the type of baits I was using or it?s presentation. Perhaps some of the Chub lads may have more to say on this, I seem to remember reading about very sensitive bites at times but again I can?t remember if this was put down to the cold alone. I would also be interested to know if this was the case as I intend to put some time in this winter with the Chub.
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Stuart Bullard
Guest
If on running waters, is there any preference to which is better for fishing upstream as opposed to down?
The reason I ask is that when ever I go to the Lea, which is invariabley high and chucking it through, the best looking holding areas always seem to be upstream (in terms of access). Its something I have never tried before.
The reason I ask is that when ever I go to the Lea, which is invariabley high and chucking it through, the best looking holding areas always seem to be upstream (in terms of access). Its something I have never tried before.
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john conway
Guest
For fishing up stream I?d use a bolt rig, depending on the degree of up stream i.e. anything less than 45 degrees to the bank. In flowing water the fish picking up the bait are either going to drop back with the current or move forward, therefore there?s a 50/50 chance that you?ll have a bolt rig if it drops back. As a rough guide I?d fish a running rig down stream or even free line, fixed or running paternoster across the river and a bolt rig up stream. It?s very much a generalisation, I wouldn?t be too upset if someone proved me wrong.
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Stuart Bullard
Guest
Interesting John, thanks. Any other views?
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Jeremy Airey
Guest
One small point would not any rig fished in running water act as a 'bolt rig' when the line is tight to the rod/quiver tip, i.e with no slack - controlled or otherwise - in the system. This would include fixed or running paternosters and running ledgers.
The only exception I can see to this is freelines when the fish takes the bait and moves upstream more or less directly towards the angler.
regards
Jeremy Airey
The only exception I can see to this is freelines when the fish takes the bait and moves upstream more or less directly towards the angler.
regards
Jeremy Airey
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Ron Clay
Guest
For fishing in still waters for bream, tench and roach and roach I generally use a fixed paternoster. Graham Marsden wrote many articles in various magazines about the effectiveness of this rig, especially for bream.
In his book: "Advanced Coarse Fishing", Graham describes this style of fishing in detail. The chapter on bream is worth reading.
In his book: "Advanced Coarse Fishing", Graham describes this style of fishing in detail. The chapter on bream is worth reading.
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john conway
Guest
Jeremy, technically you?re right about all rigs in running water being bolt rigs, but it?s the degree of resistance that, in my mind, determines the classification of ?bolt?. If the fish comes put against a static weight then it?s a bolt rig. If the fish comes up against a gradual resistance then it?s not a bolt rig. Obviously there?s going to be a grey area when the rate of resistance is very sharp/quick.
Ron your absolutely right about Grahams book, the chapter on Bream fishing is a must for anyone thinking of targeting Bream. Seeing that Grahams book is out of print? Do you think Graham would post that chapter of his book on Fishingmagic? Or would he be breaching his own copy right?
Ron your absolutely right about Grahams book, the chapter on Bream fishing is a must for anyone thinking of targeting Bream. Seeing that Grahams book is out of print? Do you think Graham would post that chapter of his book on Fishingmagic? Or would he be breaching his own copy right?
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Jeremy Airey
Guest
I raised a point earlier in this thread about the 'tether' effect of fixed pats. as we used to tie them in the old days.
What is the best way of tying these keeping them safe and keeping there inbuilt sensitivity and simplicity?
2 swivels/rings, a bead and a power gum 'back stop' knot is the best I can come up with, you could use a ledger stop instead of one of the swivels/rings but I would only do that for very light duty.
regards
Jeremy Airey
What is the best way of tying these keeping them safe and keeping there inbuilt sensitivity and simplicity?
2 swivels/rings, a bead and a power gum 'back stop' knot is the best I can come up with, you could use a ledger stop instead of one of the swivels/rings but I would only do that for very light duty.
regards
Jeremy Airey
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Ron Clay
Guest
You are too modest Graham.
Put it up.
Put it up.
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john conway
Guest
Jeremy, look in the Rigs Library on the home page of this site @ Rik?s Helicopter Rig, this would give you a non tether rig and you could play around with the ratio between the hook length and the bomb/swim-feeder link to get the sensitivity of a fixed paternoster rig. May be this is what you were thinking about anyhow?
Graham, I for one would like to read your chapter again on bream fishing, or at least point me in the direction of where I can pick up a copy of your book, I?ve had to return the one I borrowed.
Graham, I for one would like to read your chapter again on bream fishing, or at least point me in the direction of where I can pick up a copy of your book, I?ve had to return the one I borrowed.
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john conway
Guest
Thanks Graham I’d appreciate that.