Who would still buy a cane rod today?

geoffmaynard · Feb 15, 2010

Reading JOCs article about the Lucky Strike rod brings back memories - but how many of us would consider buying a brand-new cane rod today? Assuming they were available, top of the range and competitively priced - as most carbon rods are today?

dezza · Feb 15, 2010

I have just made myself a split cane fly rod from a kit.

It is 8 feet long and rated for a 5 weight line. I bought it specifically to tackle the Upper Don this year.

One of the advantages of split cane when it comes to fly rods is that they will cast a short line extremely accurately. The blank cost me £82 and I had most of the other bits already, so it doesn't cost you the earth to own a split cane rod.

You can of course purchase new cane rods at a hell of a price. A Barder will cost you £1800 minimum and you will have to wait half a year for it. Chapmans will make you a nice rod for about £500. Agutters a little less.

Other than light river fly rods, I wouldn't bother with owning a coarse fishing split cane rod as they are frightfully heavy.

Yet if I had unlimited finances I just might build myself a Mk IV carp rod and do a bit of classical carp fishing.

quickcedo · Feb 15, 2010

I would have to agree with Ron's last statement. I owned a MK4 years ago and thought it was the dogs dangly bits at the time.
So, yes given the right set of circumstances, I would buy a new split cane rod.

jcp01 · Feb 15, 2010

I would certainly buy certain rods of cane because the blanks do feel good and have such nice actions compared to carbon, but I really don't want to have to put up with agate rings and all the other old-fashioned brightware that 'modern' split cane builders still feel obliged to kit them out with.

I want Fuji guides and reel seats, full cork handles and push fit glass quivertips thanks very much. Split cane is not an old or obsolete material, and rods made from it could be as cutting edge as any high mod carbon if only the makers would pull their fingers out of the past's arse.

Okuma have proved this to be true with their excellent centrepins. Nothing old fashioned or retro about them, they are as up to date as could be, and they seem to sell.

Peter Jacobs · Feb 15, 2010

geoffmaynard said:
Reading JOCs article about the Lucky Strike rod brings back memories - but how many of us would consider buying a brand-new cane rod today? Assuming they were available, top of the range and competitively priced - as most carbon rods are today?

I would, and have done so.

For me, cane rods have a 'soul' that cabon doesn't possess.

I have Aspnindale's, MkIV's, Super Wizards, a Merlin and a Linsley Carp Perfection together with quite a few 'unknown' rods and some other well knowns.

I am giving a lot of serious consideration to a new Barder Fly rod at the moment.

audi49 · Feb 15, 2010

affordability

I would certainly buy one if they were retailing at around 100pounds, as opposed to a thousand odd.

dezza · Feb 15, 2010

rufus said:
I would certainly buy certain rods of cane because the blanks do feel good and have such nice actions compared to carbon, but I really don't want to have to put up with agate rings and all the other old-fashioned brightware that 'modern' split cane builders still feel obliged to kit them out with.

I want Fuji guides and reel seats, full cork handles and push fit glass quivertips thanks very much. Split cane is not an old or obsolete material, and rods made from it could be as cutting edge as any high mod carbon if only the makers would pull their fingers out of the past's arse.

Okuma have proved this to be true with their excellent centrepins. Nothing old fashioned or retro about them, they are as up to date as could be, and they seem to sell.

Decent split cane is certainly better that that horrid Hexagraph stuff which feels lumbering and heavy somehow. Some time ago, Daiwa manufactured a range of carbon fly rods which were hexagonal and also looked like split cane, but they had to take them off the market I believe due to patent infringements. They were not bad at all - better than hexagraph.

Certainly in the fly fishing world there has been an upsurge in the demand for high quality cane fly rods. I am told that most of the split cane fly rods that are made in the UK go to the USA.

I don't doubt that fairly decent quality split cane is now being made in China. I don't have a problem with that as China is where the tonkin bamboo comes from.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

If I was making a modern split cane coarse fishing rod I would put a top class Struble housed-in-cork, (very classy) salmon styled reel seat on it together with three leg SiC intermediate rings and a SiC tip ring.

If it was a carp rod I would incorporate a 25 inch full flor cork handle. Certainly not that darned hideous Duplon (UUuuurrrggghhh!!) stuff.

I don't think I would put a Fuji reel seat on such a rod, they look very out of place on split cane!

Peter Jacobs · Feb 15, 2010

Ron The Hat Clay said:
I don't think I would put a Fuji real seat on such a rod, they look very out of place on split cane!

About as out of place as a pork chop at a Jewish wedding breakfast!

bendsomecane · Feb 15, 2010

hello chaps , ive fished for over thirty years with also sorts of Carbon and glass and combinations of both but about 10 years ago I contracted barbelvarsicular (the inability to fish for anything other than Barbel !).

I reached my mid life crisis last year and started to think about buying a split cane Barbel rod for use on my local south yorks rivers. I ordered a bespoke 11ft 2 piece rod from Mr Andy Sliwa in rugby, and an AJP deluxe from chris lythe.

What a relevation !! ive have Barbel to 9lb , the rod handles like a dream and even on the trent i can wallis cast a feeder (2oz) 25-30 yards. I would heartily recommend any serious Barbel angler to use cane and pin, its really quite fantastic. the feeling of playing a hooked fish is so different to carbon. its more personal more organic , everything is more direct. Even chub feel different.

yes there are limitations but if you stretch to spending around 350-400 the rod will last you a lifetime.

Andy is renovating a Hardy Wallis Avon for me, i hope to use this as a chub/ perch rod locally.

The thing about fishing cane is that is takes your fishing back to a different world , a world where catching the biggest isnt the most important thing.

Andy's rods a beautifully made and a pleasure to use. The do what its says on the tin. Barder rods are without a doubt the most beautiful but for that price i would want to take it out.

i recommend for small river chub/ barbel try cane and pin, persevere with the wallis cast and it will take your fishing to another world. !!

BSC.

jcp01 · Feb 15, 2010

Ron The Hat Clay said:
a top class Struble housed-in-cork

Yep that'll do!

dezza · Feb 15, 2010

So here is my check list for building a Mk IV carp rod using up to date materials.

Split Cane Blank = £280.00
Splint end suction ferrule = £38.00
Top grade corks = £45.00
SiC rings = £60.00
Butt Cap = £15.00
Struble Reel seat = £53.00
Keeper Ring = £0.85
Tying Thread Gudebrod = £5.00

Labour at £10.00 per hour = £250.00

Basic Cost = £746.85

Mark up at 100%

Total RRP less VAT = £1493.00

So Edward Barder's prices are not too bad after all.

bendsomecane · Feb 15, 2010

Im no rod builder but Andy Sliwa's 11ft rod cost me £400. brand new,hand made 20 weeks work eh ?

BSC

Paul Boote · Feb 15, 2010

Something I posted on another forum two years ago about something I had posted on another forum...

I wouldn't spend money on a coarse rod (I like graphite far too much), but if money was no object and the two-tip rod was an exquisitely crafted, perfect-actioned, tiny, weightless wand by Tom Moran...

- self, Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:01am:

Something below that I posted on the Loops Forum a few weeks ago. Not an advert for any firm or for any man, just a comment about the best British cane fly rod maker I have encountered (and some anglers, not just a few and not merely in Britain, end-users who can afford Tom Moran's rods - I'm not one of them - will agree with me).....

Loops, "Cane", Nov. 04 2008,11:18:

I made a few cane rods myself (from the original Tonkin poles, splitting them, planing them, gluing them etc) in the 1970s - tiny tods only (graphite, even then, was better for heavier work) - 6- to 7.5-foot light-line wands - and got quite keen on both the building and the rods, until I was invited by my pal Alan Bramley, the then owner of Partridge hooks, to a cane rod-building seminar at his lovely, Victorian factory on Mount Pleasant, Redditch...

That day I met one of Alan's employees, Tom Moran, and saw the top-end rods that Tom sometimes made for Partridge but mostly made for himself: masterpieces every one. I promptly gave up cane rod-building!

Tom is producing rods again, I heard recently. Some outfit named The Alternative Angler was offering Tom Moran rods for sale. Now, I don't have that sort of money, but if any of you have....

dezza · Feb 15, 2010

Making split cane from scratch is a long winded highly skilled job that left my hands in a terrible state.

Then I discovered JB Walker of Hythe in Kent. Then a local guy in South Yorkshire who made very good split cane at lower prices than Walkers. But by that time, glass rods had reached acceptable standards.

But the real split cane demand today is for fly rods between 6 and 8 feet in length having two tops and line ratings beween 3 and 5. Most custom split cane manufacturers have order books full of this type of rod, mainly from the USA.

There is also demand for rods identical to those used by Marvin Hedge, the inventor of double haul casting. There is also an upsurge in rods designed by Hiram Leonard, the American who invented split cane.

All in all, split cane rod manufacturing is booming.

Gary Cullum · Feb 15, 2010

buying cane rods...

Yep. I would Geoff and I do, and thats generally all i fish with. As JOC says... you can’t beat the curve a cane takes on under pressure from a good fish... though I am becoming more discerning about the weight of the cane I am prepared to hold for a full day’s trotting. And that also impacts on length of course.
Gary

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------

You make a good point Ron..
what sum of money would we all desire to earn for 25, 30, 40 or maybe 60 hours of our time...plus material costs... especially if the product is bespoke and not mass produced by efficient modern machinery?
Gary

dezza · Feb 15, 2010

When I say that split cane rod making is booming, I mean for a certain style and type of rod. There is also a large demand from people who want to make their own rods, both in carbon and split cane. If you want to own a split cane rod, and you can't afford to buy a finished rod, I would recommend that you assemble your own. You can save a fortune by doing it this way.

There is also a fair demand for finished rods built by top craftsmen. There is a two page feature in this month's Angling Star on Dave Lumb, a respected bespoke rod maker who uses Harrison carbon blanks exclusively. His rods are top class, I own one.

jimmy crackedcorn · Feb 15, 2010

I think in 20 years time the price of carbon will be that high we'll all have to buy split cane rods.

dezza · Feb 15, 2010

In 20 years time there will still be split cane rods around, but carbon will have been largely replaced with what will become much cheaper materials based on readily renewable cellulosic nanofibres.

I know this because the American company I was consulting for are now at the fore front of the development of nanofibre filtration products.

Evidence of this can be seen in the new range of Reacter fly rods produced by Sharpes of Aberdeen. These rods are very expensive and are not yet perfect, but they are considerably lighter than the equivalent top range carbon fibre rods.

Cakey · Feb 16, 2010

I would and have and spent lots having it done up but now Im scared to use it

Graham Whatmore · Feb 16, 2010

All that money and all that effort and not use it Cakey? You cannot be serious!

There are always loads of split cane rods on ebay such as this one but I can't say I have ever been tempted, I wonder what advantages it would have over my Harrison other than it is a traditional material for rods.

Who would still buy a cane rod today?

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