Anglers let off the hook

A news item in today's Sunday Telegraph which should gladden the hearts of all anglers.

Anglers are finally off the hook: fish feel no pain
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 09/02/2003)


Anglers, rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain. Or so the largest study into piscine neurology has concluded.

An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish and mammals has found that their brains are not sufficiently developed to allow them to sense pain or fear. The findings represent a significant victory for anglers, whose sport has been under attack from animal rights activists buoyed by their success in securing a partial ban on foxhunting.

The study is the work of James D. Rose, a professor of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has examined data on animals' responses to pain. His report, published in the American academic journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, concludes that awareness of pain depends on functions of regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.

Prof Rose, 60, said that previous studies which had indicated that fish can feel pain had confused "nociception" - responding to a threatening stimulus - with feeling pain.

"Pain is predicated on awareness," he said. "The key issue is the distinction between nociception and pain. A person who is anaesthetised in an operating theatre will still respond physically to an external stimulus, but he or she will not feel pain. Anyone who has seen a chicken with its head cut off will know that, while its body can respond to stimuli, it cannot be feeling pain."

Prof Rose added: "There are people who aren't comfortable with my findings, but even those who don't accept them have yet to raise any scientific challenge."

More than two million Britons are anglers, making it the nation's most popular pastime. Rodney Coldron, from the National Federation of Anglers, said that he hoped the new findings would vindicate the sport. "I am glad this report has come out and killed off that silly argument. Fish can obviously become distressed, but anyone that actually goes fishing knows that they don't feel pain in the same way as mammals," he said.

A person who is anaesthetised in an operating theatre will still respond physically to an external stimulus, but he or she will not feel pain.




Feckin* hurts after though

Thanks for that Richard, I dont believe you will ever, with any scientific methodology, be able to determine weither fish feel pain or not, regardless of what American university has given you a professors seat. Maybe we could see the paper, particularly the methodology and conclusion?

Where does it say pain depends on functions of regions of the cerebral cortex?

Anyway isnt it the stress factor in angling which is now causing concern?

I dont think its a good idea, by any criteria, to simply sit back and think we are off the hook, which such a journalistic piece will portray.

at the end of the day, sticking a piece of metal through the mouth of an animal, is pretty difficult to justify, by anybodies standards!

With regard to fish feeling pain - when was the last time you saw a fish flinch when a hook is removed.

good point Dave, in fact I've even had tench scream on me!

Its a nice bit of PR for angling, but I would be dubious of the scientific model!

Whilst this paper is important to angling and the debate about pain, it is one researchers viewpoint from reviewing many papers in this area.

IT IS NOT definitive proof of whether fish do or do not feel pain.

I understand from Dr. Bruno Broughton that the paper is being peer reviewed at the moment. Under this process any shortcomings in it will be exposed.

Another reviewer of a different persuasion could come to completely opposite conclusion.

Such is the nature of scientific research and reviewing.

If it does hold together after PR, it is then just one more brick in the wall and not the whole wall.

I've found a copy of Dr Rose?s Report

Very informative.

Monk,
I reckon you are just trying to make your name amongst the tree hugging make (lot's of) love not war (or fishing) fraternity.........either that or your pumping iron diet is turning you!

For want of anything better to do, I've just emailed the report to PETA... that should make their day...... not!!!

It was in the paper (Sun or Star) today. Should open a few peoples eyes.

I'm sitting firmly on the fence with regard to the pain not being felt, but theres no way I could swallow the 'fish do not feel fear' part. If this was the case then surely there would be no reason for the fish to become shy of methods and/or baits.
And you can't tell me that isn't the case?

An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish and mammals has found that their brains are not sufficiently developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.

Looking at this extract from Richard's original post, I'm given to wonder why so many anglers (myself included) are often outwitted by our quarry. ??????????????

Monk - sorry mate it seems as though I didn't make myself clear, the point I was trying to make is that there is normally no reaction from the fish when the hook is removed. Usually they just lay dormant, surely if they felt pain as we do then there would be some sort of reaction when removing the hook.
Not very scientific I know, but there again I only attended the University of Life.)

stu-got to make the distinction between "fear" and "pain"

And your point is Mr Rothery? Mr Silvers, I concurr completely mate!

Sorry about surnames Dave, but I didn't want that 'git' Dave Rothery thinking me and him are singing from the same hym sheet...

Distinction for you mate: Fear is a thousand times, and some, worse than pain.

The fear of dying, or the dying itself (for some)
The fear of dentists or the drill itself (for some of us)
The fear of heights or the climb itself)

Fear is fear itself, better to suffer the pain with no warning, than to be warned about the pain you'll suffer.

Going to dinner at the mother-in-laws or the food istelf!! I thank you and goodnight - Wahaaa!

Mr Dennis - Its OK!