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Sally Hotchkin
Guest
Don't you find it ironic that the anti-angling campaign was initiated by a former angler? Feeling a sudden pang of guilt, it looks as though he has tried to assuage it by attacking the sport in total.
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Malcolm Bason
Guest
No Sally! I for one DO NOT believe PETA's claim that a former angler contacted them. This is simply an angle they have chosen to use. Their advertising campaign is to include computer generated/enhance pics of a dog hanging from a fishermans line - equating the keeping of pet dogs with fishing! Don't forget, they are against keeping animals (including dogs) as pets.
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Ron Clay
Guest
I would like to ask a question of all of you. If fox hunting is actually banned in parliament, how are they (The Labour Party) going to stop it? I have spoken recently to a few people who hunt foxes and they tell me they will carry on as normal. What are the police and the politicians going to do if this happens?
What do you think?
What do you think?
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Malcolm Bason
Guest
What will probably happen Ron is there will be a clause written into the new bill that allows foxes to be destroyed or whatever from someones land should they be deamed a nuisance. It happened with badgers years back. Digging for badgers with terriers was made illegal, however, it could still be done if the diggers produced a letter and of course signature, from the land-owner saying he/she wanted them moved on!
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Ron Clay
Guest
Who is going to do the destroying of the foxes?
My friend says he would defend his land with firearms if he had to. Even if the government sent in troops. Make no mistake Malcom there is a great deal of passionate concern amongst country people regrding this bill.
My friend says he would defend his land with firearms if he had to. Even if the government sent in troops. Make no mistake Malcom there is a great deal of passionate concern amongst country people regrding this bill.
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Malcolm Bason
Guest
I do understand, Ron, I promise you! I was simply speaking from experience and used the comparrison to try and explain the point - that being there will be loopholes worked into it. I don't know what that will be, obviously, but they will leave to door open so that 'control' can still be enforced of the fox population.
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Jonathan Faro
Guest
OK I'll try nad kleep this short after a huge post on anglersnet.co.uk. However I think Peta wont be a real threat. When peopel see that they are against them having there pets dog/cats/gerbils or horsriders or any meateater etc then I feel we will get support. Thats a hell of alot of support. Also didnt the government say that fishing wouldnt be banned even if hunting was. Also surely the big government bill on changes to fishing thats just come out. Surely they wouldnt have done that if they where going to ban it. I don't think it will be banned but if it does it will show the sad state of our country and I'll emigrate. I'm sure Irelands nice and it cant be abnned there as it is of HUGE importance to there tourist trade
Jon
Jon
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Malcolm Bason
Guest
If people carry on hunting foxes as normal Ron, I'm pretty sure they would be arrested. As for the gentleman who stated he would defend his land with firearms - well, I don't think anyone really needs to answer that one! I've witnessed fox control on land the hunt cannot work! Its done with 'Cymag' canisters! That point should have been hightlighted a little more that it was by the hunt supporters! Perhaps public opinion would not have swayed the the way it did against hunting with hounds? We as anglers, must now use every possible opportunity we get to put across our arguments, and defeat the likes of PETA.
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Paul Williams
Guest
Nice to see everyones gonna emigrate and leave the rest of us to catch the sticky bits off the fan!!
PETA ARE MOST DEFINETLY A REAL THREAT!!!!!! a government bill on CHANGES to angling, how do you imagine that came into being???
Not seeing the woods for the trees springs to mind!!!!!!!!!!!
PETA ARE MOST DEFINETLY A REAL THREAT!!!!!! a government bill on CHANGES to angling, how do you imagine that came into being???
Not seeing the woods for the trees springs to mind!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ron Clay
Guest
I do not trust the likes of Blair, Prescott et al. Sure they have made statements regarding the fact that they will not ban angling, BUT I DO NOT BELEIVE THEM!!! Rememeber at the last election they spoke of a charter for anglers. What has happented to it?
It is now time for all of us to band together, especially the match anglers. I feel angling will first of all get more controls from government. Bit by bit our sport will be eroded. Like this I guess:
1. A ban on livebaiting.
2. A ban on keepnets
3. A ban on match fishing (Germany did it)
4. A ban on all bait that is live (worms & maggots etc)
5. A ban on releasing fish after capture. (Germany did it).
6. A national angling test before you receive your licence.
All these rules will come, one by one. That's how governments work.
That's why I say join the Countryside alliance march on 18th March
It is now time for all of us to band together, especially the match anglers. I feel angling will first of all get more controls from government. Bit by bit our sport will be eroded. Like this I guess:
1. A ban on livebaiting.
2. A ban on keepnets
3. A ban on match fishing (Germany did it)
4. A ban on all bait that is live (worms & maggots etc)
5. A ban on releasing fish after capture. (Germany did it).
6. A national angling test before you receive your licence.
All these rules will come, one by one. That's how governments work.
That's why I say join the Countryside alliance march on 18th March
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
This is a hard one for me. I love my fishing, I can't imagine not being able to go, but , I dont want to be associated with certain elements of the angling public.
Far to many times I have walked the banks of the Tay and seen Grayling thrown up on the bank...or fished Lochs and seen Pike cut in two in the margins, or even worse, a dead otter, skinned and nailed to a tree, and a seal that had been shot several times by a gillie in the mouth of the Don.
If i walk into a tackle shop in Aberdeen, and ask about Pike, I get the usual, *Vermin, should all be killed* attitude. After all, they eat all the trout..don't they?
I have spoken to many trout and salmon anglers, especially at some of the Game Fairs up here, and there is a strong following for the Countryside Alliance. I really cannot support a group that has *anglers* like this amongst its ranks.
I know I am tarring many game anglers with the same brush, but having been involved with the Grampian branch of the PAC (No longer operating) and given talks on coarse fishing to several clubs, I can honestly say that there is a strong leaning towards kill for killing sake. My local Loch has a kill all pike rule, and its not even a fishery. They eat all the ducks...so the owner has nothing to shoot in the winter!!! Do you really want to be associated with this?
Btw, I do not have a grudge against game anglers, just the ones who cannot see the damage they are doing.
(I am now hiding under the table waiting for the abuse)
Far to many times I have walked the banks of the Tay and seen Grayling thrown up on the bank...or fished Lochs and seen Pike cut in two in the margins, or even worse, a dead otter, skinned and nailed to a tree, and a seal that had been shot several times by a gillie in the mouth of the Don.
If i walk into a tackle shop in Aberdeen, and ask about Pike, I get the usual, *Vermin, should all be killed* attitude. After all, they eat all the trout..don't they?
I have spoken to many trout and salmon anglers, especially at some of the Game Fairs up here, and there is a strong following for the Countryside Alliance. I really cannot support a group that has *anglers* like this amongst its ranks.
I know I am tarring many game anglers with the same brush, but having been involved with the Grampian branch of the PAC (No longer operating) and given talks on coarse fishing to several clubs, I can honestly say that there is a strong leaning towards kill for killing sake. My local Loch has a kill all pike rule, and its not even a fishery. They eat all the ducks...so the owner has nothing to shoot in the winter!!! Do you really want to be associated with this?
Btw, I do not have a grudge against game anglers, just the ones who cannot see the damage they are doing.
(I am now hiding under the table waiting for the abuse)
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Paul Williams
Guest
Rob, i know where you are coming from, i have come up against similar things on the Herefordshire Wye,money talks! BUT this battle aint about the different angling factions, the aim of PETA is stop you and me from having the right to go fishing, and eventually own pets and live on Linda Mcartney veggie burgers.
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
I do appriciate where you come from, totally. However, I would rather see a Coarse Anglers body take up the challenge, maybe the Carp Society or ACA who understands fish conservation, who can show the good anglers have done for the benefit of the community, such as cleaner rivers, nature reserves etc, and who can distance themselves from the hunting/shooting/bloodsports lobby.
Joining up with countryside (ab)users is, I personally think, wrong. There is a world of difference between shooting farmed Grouse and Pheasants to catching say a large carp that u have seen grow over the years, which, maybe, in the past , you have caught before and lovingly returned.
Unfortuantly I have witnessed the blooding of a stag hunter whilst out hill walking. To see a magnicicent animal laying dead, and to have several blood thirsty men rubbing blood over each others faces, infront of a group of around 20 hill walkers was sickening. There was not one person in that group who was not offended.
What do u think of an Angling co-operative taking up the challenge?
Joining up with countryside (ab)users is, I personally think, wrong. There is a world of difference between shooting farmed Grouse and Pheasants to catching say a large carp that u have seen grow over the years, which, maybe, in the past , you have caught before and lovingly returned.
Unfortuantly I have witnessed the blooding of a stag hunter whilst out hill walking. To see a magnicicent animal laying dead, and to have several blood thirsty men rubbing blood over each others faces, infront of a group of around 20 hill walkers was sickening. There was not one person in that group who was not offended.
What do u think of an Angling co-operative taking up the challenge?
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Ron Clay
Guest
Unfortunately the Antis and Peta do not understand your feelings Rob. Some of them would consider the releasing of the carp as a far greater crime than killing it.
With all these differences beween us, it is going to be impossible to present a united national angling front to the authorities. If this is the case, we are doomed.
Angling, to me is just another form of hunting. We hunt fish, land them, and because we don't actually want them, only the pleasure in overcoming the difficulty in catching them, we release them. Look at the comments in Peta's web site on catch and release.
These are very serious times indeed. If you think Peta has no influence on the government, think again. They are a very wealthy outfit with a clear set of aims and the banning of fishing, either with rod & line or nets is one of them
With all these differences beween us, it is going to be impossible to present a united national angling front to the authorities. If this is the case, we are doomed.
Angling, to me is just another form of hunting. We hunt fish, land them, and because we don't actually want them, only the pleasure in overcoming the difficulty in catching them, we release them. Look at the comments in Peta's web site on catch and release.
These are very serious times indeed. If you think Peta has no influence on the government, think again. They are a very wealthy outfit with a clear set of aims and the banning of fishing, either with rod & line or nets is one of them
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andrew jackson
Guest
Peta may have influence on the government.
But at the end of the day it will all come down to votes. As it stands at the moment there exists a uneasy status quo. Most of the voting public see our sport as a quaint if not a little eccentric passtime. No current party would risk a damaging attack on angling at this moment in time. The future is in our hands. As recient as last week I argued on this forum against a suggestion to double licence fees to help fight our corner. How so very wrong, was I. It will be the publicity war where it will be all won or lost. We all have family and freinds, I for one will go out of my way to win them round starting now. As for the future I will now go out of my way to introduce children to our sport, be they family or freinds. One question I would like to ask is, where are the tackle manufacturers. We have supported them as induvidualls over the years. Would the tackle trade not lose heavily if a ban was imposed? Lets not forget that some of our leading tackle manufacturers are big international companys. Surely now is the time for them to speculate to accumulate. If they think that they can stand to lose the British market, I think they would be sadly mistaken. Anti angling is not a British phenomenon, if a president is set in this country it could prove to be the spring board to the rest of the western world. That may appear to be a little dramatic but it is the way I see it.
But at the end of the day it will all come down to votes. As it stands at the moment there exists a uneasy status quo. Most of the voting public see our sport as a quaint if not a little eccentric passtime. No current party would risk a damaging attack on angling at this moment in time. The future is in our hands. As recient as last week I argued on this forum against a suggestion to double licence fees to help fight our corner. How so very wrong, was I. It will be the publicity war where it will be all won or lost. We all have family and freinds, I for one will go out of my way to win them round starting now. As for the future I will now go out of my way to introduce children to our sport, be they family or freinds. One question I would like to ask is, where are the tackle manufacturers. We have supported them as induvidualls over the years. Would the tackle trade not lose heavily if a ban was imposed? Lets not forget that some of our leading tackle manufacturers are big international companys. Surely now is the time for them to speculate to accumulate. If they think that they can stand to lose the British market, I think they would be sadly mistaken. Anti angling is not a British phenomenon, if a president is set in this country it could prove to be the spring board to the rest of the western world. That may appear to be a little dramatic but it is the way I see it.
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steve watson
Guest
You know its strange, as an expat over here in the states,I cant understand why us Brits let things like this get to a point like itis at the moment.This anti angling just would not happen here in the states.Fishing over here is considered a god given right just like hunting the right to bear arms etc.You know i have noticed and its one of the reasons i moved is we as a people allow people of authority to trample us down all the time .We never stand up for ourselves only token gestures all the time.The angling fraternity is a huge movement and could easily beat the antis if everybody stood up to be counted,but like i said itll never happen!Its strange i hate to get on a political note but i remember waking up to find John Major had got back inyears ago, i was devastated how the public had let this happen,yet evryone i spoke to had also voiced there disgust over cups of tea.How did it happen ? Apathy or what? Im going to come back to live in the UK one day one of the biggest things i miss is the fishing,hopefully itll still be allowed.Just remember this take a leaf out of the yanks book, fishing is your god given right fight for it for a change.Dont let the B------ grind you down!!!!
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Ron Clay
Guest
In most other democratic countries of the world, it would come down to votes. But in UK, I don't think so. Just take Blair's performance over the past few years. He said he would get rid of sleaze, but it's back with a vengeance. Blair is only intetested in one thing and that is dictatorship against you and me. If you ever watch a speech of his you will see the gleam of a fanatic in his eyes. There has not been a man in politics since Hitler and Stalin with the same sort of zeal. Blair and his cohorts are lyers, cheats and or without any decent set of morals at all. How could anyone sanction buggery between children for example? I see in the paper this morning that Labour party members have been hosting a meeting of animal right people.
Yes Steve I also lived in a country for many years where hunting and fishing were a God given right that no-one dared to challenge.
Unfortunately the only god, or so he thinks, in this country is Tony Blair
Yes Steve I also lived in a country for many years where hunting and fishing were a God given right that no-one dared to challenge.
Unfortunately the only god, or so he thinks, in this country is Tony Blair
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Malcolm Bason
Guest
Ron - please don't bring your political views in on this one - I for one are greatly offended at your comments. Each to their own with regards politics, and we must learn to respect each others views. I could say a lot of things about the Conservatives that would probably offend you or others, but I won't! This is about fishing - NOT just another form of hunting as, in my opinion, you so wrongly put it! How can we hope to present a united front with you on our side?
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Rob Brownfield
Guest
Interesting. We have *in-fighting* amongst ourselves here. Not much hope for a united front 
(
If...and i mean IF there is a real threat to angling in the UK, then maybe the manufactures and angling organisations can get together and fight . This is the only way I see forward. Brits do tend to sit and winge about stuff, but not do anything about it....just ask an Australian!
Companies like Fox, Drennen, Nash etc who have built empires of the backs of british anglers should lead by example and band together.
Just an opinion like...
(If...and i mean IF there is a real threat to angling in the UK, then maybe the manufactures and angling organisations can get together and fight . This is the only way I see forward. Brits do tend to sit and winge about stuff, but not do anything about it....just ask an Australian!
Companies like Fox, Drennen, Nash etc who have built empires of the backs of british anglers should lead by example and band together.
Just an opinion like...
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Ron Clay
Guest
Sorry but am a a rather blunt person who was born in Yorkshire and lived most of his life in South Africa. Angling is without doubt a form of hunting, make no mistakes about that. Show me a fly fisher stalking a trout on a stream, show me an angler casting a slug at a big chub in a clear stream. Show me a roach fisher trotting the stream with a stick float. Show me all these and tell me they are not hunting. They are all partaking in one of the most basic forms of hunting known to man. We fish because of the hunting instinct in all of us.
As regards politics. Well the whole issue of Peta, ALF and other has become extremey poitical unfortunately. Nothing you a can tell me about the Tories would really upset me. I always work on the basis of least worst and in this case, the tories would be a hell of a lot kinder to anglers than labour
As regards politics. Well the whole issue of Peta, ALF and other has become extremey poitical unfortunately. Nothing you a can tell me about the Tories would really upset me. I always work on the basis of least worst and in this case, the tories would be a hell of a lot kinder to anglers than labour