River close season - keep it?

I've been round the block on this one, and Mark's done a great job of posing the questions. Des Taylor's banging on about it currently, but I think Des is way off beam. Doing away with the close season won't save angling clubs from dwindling funds. If the rivers were thronging with anglers until March 15, there'd be a case. But the fishing's not especially good in the lay-off, so why would anglers suddenly start fishing rivers again? At best, it's a case for 20 per cent or so more day ticket money, but since I haven't paid for a day ticket in two years due to the paucity of bailiffs to collect the money, clubs would be better off sorting that one out fisrt.
The truth of the matter is that rivers aren't what they used to be, and clubs aren't what they should be. If the EA could stop the pthalate pollution which is making the fish into hermaphrodites, and if clubs got off their collective fat arses to encourage more kids into fishing and to market what they've already got (simultaneously charging more for an annual book) it's all a bit grim. Personally, I love not seeing a soul all day... I just hope the riparian rights don't end up in the hands of PETA or some do-gooding landowner who chucks us all off.

Strong points Mark and I agree with you all the way.

Much as it pains me to say it we're already losing waters in the Fens. The biggest danger comes from the bird lobby, which has realised that current coastal/salt march reserves in North Norfolk, which generate millions, will be unsustainable in 50 years' time and they're looking inland and looking ahead to a time when parts of the fens will flood again.

Face it the whole thing is a shambles. You can't fish the rivers but you can fish the canals...er well most of them, and the stillwaters... er well, some of them. My little spot of fishy heaven is directly connected to the river as are the RMC pits up the road and they are both regarded as 'stillwaters', with no close season imposed by the EA in either place. The same thing on other similar 'off river stillwaters' up and down the country...er well, not all of them.
I consider myself indeed fortunate to have somewhere close to home to fish and is worth fishing, during the river close season but there is no logic to why that should be and it doesn't stop there. If I decided to take my boat out onto the river during the coarse close season, HYPOTHETICALLY I could take my flyrod up to one of the weirs and legally fish for trout. If I catch a perch or a chub or a pike, then as long as I take care to release it immediately then I am not doing anything wrong and if these fish that might be caught are not under pressure (they wouldn't be) are post or pre spawn (they inevitably are) then there isn't even an emotional argument to fall back on. I'm only HYPOTHETICALLY working around the EA.
I would like to see the close season scrapped on public waters. Leave the parts of the rivers which are under private ownership to the private owners to make a decision. It's a slightly bitty arrangment but I would not want to see landowners and clubs forced to concede a 'no close season' rule in situations where fish and bankside regeneration might be helped by a break, evne if only for a few weeks, anything else would smack of beaurocracy. Everywhere else? scrap the close season.

Hell of a thought provoking thread starting here and yes i know we debate it every year but we still haven't the answers that satisfy us all.......so lets keep debating, i know i will once i have really thought about it........i'm still a floating voter!

I hate to say it, but I agree with Des Taylors argument that we get to miss out on fishing the rivers during the nice weather that late spring / early summer can bring.

I'm not taking into account fish welfare though.

It seems that opening stillwaters during the close season has been a success - the fish seem to be thriving in most of the stillwaters round here. My experience is that fish just don't want to know about feeding during most of the stages of the spawning process.

Because of the popularity of commercial stillwaters and the lack of a stillwater closed season, most anglers are into the habit of fishing everywhere other than rivers.

If we can get 10% or 20% more people back on the river banks and therefore 10% or 20% of revenue back in the coffers of the clubs, that has to be a good thing!

I can't honestly see it lasting another five years. What's interesting is since abolition on stillwaters no-one's come up with any evidence that it's harmful and therefore the close season should be re-imposed.

I think they'll trial it on one or two rivers and the results will be slewed because people will flock to them.

I agree too that we are missing out on some decent sport with the river closures and not i hasten to add from spawnbound fish, but Mark asks a good question when he asks if anglers would move back to rivers, personally i don't think they will, at least not in significant numbers.
Those of us over a certain age have seen a huge change in angling, gone are the days when we had a float and ledger rod, multi rod or multi capture is the way it is now.......if clubs like the BAA want to survive then they need to listen to the people using the river instead of being totally biased to the old match fishing world, and i don't mean putting a yes man "specialist adviser" into the fore........and on the other side the sentamentalists need to answer questions without the rose coloured specs.
I can only see big clubs losing/giving up waters and smaller "specialist" bodies of anglers forming syndicates......problem is a lot of specialists live for today, what happens to our rivers when the big fish they want disapear?........so will the syndicates and a lot of river fishing.

The big problem with rivers is you can't reliably stock most of them, they need large-scaalee improvements which are often at odds with modern-day priorities like flood protection, farming etc.

My way of approaching this subject is to come from the opposite angle....

If we had no close season on rivers what would the arguements be for imposing one, in what formn and over what period ?

Clearly the first question would be why did you need one ?

The DEFRA Salmon Freshwaters Fisheries Report (8/2/2000)found no scientific reason to support the closed season on rivers either to protect fish or other wildlife.

So if there wasn't one in force now then the government would certainly not be planning to impose one.

So would anglers want a closed season enforced on rivers if we didn't already have one ?

Of course not.

So why are we arguing about it ?

Well I didn't support the lifting of the closed season on stillwaters. I liked the closed season it gave me the chance to recharge my batteries, earn a few brownie points by doing jobs around the house and June 16th was a day that I looked forward to immensely.

That's the difference I liked the closed season. It did nothing for the welfare of the fish.

If you are truly worried about the welfare of fish then I would have thought banning the use of keepnets in June July and August would achieve far more than a closed season has or ever will.

Strangley I don't think you will find any clubs supporting that idea.

Exellent points as usuall Andy.......i think there are a lot of us who liked the close season when it was a blanket thing but not to many who would admit it!
Then we had it taken away from us and as you said it gave us chance to get other things straightened out without temptation.
I'm pretty sure that a fair few of those who want to keep the river close season are in denial and have no real solid basis for keeping it!

As said previously there are many better ways than having a close season for projecting our river fisheries ( reintroduction of floor plains, cormorant control, pollution control but to mention a few ). However, they all cost money, having a close season doesn?t if you discount the policing of such. So are we just indulging our own ethical egos by having one? If we didn?t have a close season I have to ask my self would I go river fishing more often, probably not. I like the odd session on the canal and the occasional still water. I?d probably have more opportunities to fish the rivers when they are at their most productive, but I don?t think I?d be flogging them in what is now the close season.
Well, am I in favour or not re stopping the close season?
I don?t really know. I?ve yet to see a convincing argument for a close season other than the, "we?ve always had one argument" and giving one?s self a lay-off to do other things.

Well I cannot help joining in but on a wider front.

First we should have some form of restriction which will allow the fish to breed in peace. I have seen anglers fishing for Perch at the start of the season and some still carrying eggs or milt, they are not careful and end up causing the fish to drop the eggs or milt.

I would like to see unhooking mats and slings as compulsory for ALL fish.

On the close season it is difficult because of the wide range of spawning and recovery times so perhaps the answer is that all waters have a restriction of 50 yards between anglers from say February to July included. By all waters I mean still and moving. Actually it would be better for us all if this was the case all the time.

The penalties for ignoring the rule should be severe and definately include confiscation of tackle of offenders and a licence ban for 5 years.


The next approach would be to take real steps to eradicate cormorants after all they are not a natural part of the environment and they take more young fish than anything else.

As I doubt we could support real self control then I am afraid the close season should remain.

Bob the affect of rough handling of fish during spawning by some anglers is insignificant in compression with the destruction of spawning grounds due to flooding, pollution and bank erosion etc. What has the introduction of non native species had on the demise of native species? The salmon anglers are terrified of the affect Barbel will have on the salmon spawning grounds.
The close season is well down the list when it comes to effective river fishery management.
Perhaps we should have a two tier pricing system for our rod licence. One for fishing 2/3rds of the season and one for the full season with the additional moneys going to improving our rivers and their supporting environment.

My old mate Pete Stone argued that all legitimate field sports have a close season out of respect for their quarry, and thus without one, we lose some respectability. I go along with that, and I would add that - whether the close season's for fish or not - the lay-off gives the wildfowl some peace and quiet. Yes, there will be the occasional dog walker and rambler, but by and large the banks will do the usual and become an overgrown tangle for us to tackle in June.

I agree with Mark Williams 100%. I would also be in favour with re-inroducing the close season on all waters, not just retaining it on rivers. I think that everything needs a rest and, although the current close season on rivers does not always coincided with spawning, it is a good time of the year for the bankside vegitation to re-establish itself as well as leaving the birds to nest in peace. I have seen the close season abolished then re-introduced on one of my local pits. It is interesting that the pit fishes better with the close season in place. From a purely selfish point of view I would hate to lose the feeling of anticipation when June 16th comes around and I am able to fish the rivers again. Fishing stillwaters has never had quite the same appeal for me since the abolition of the close season.

Mark.....but do we count angling as a field sport? (i do btw)......and i don't honestly believe that angling has any significant detrimental effect on wildfowl or wildlife ( the opposite in many cases) and i can take you to plenty overgrown banks in Feburary, every idea opens up more questions but in all honesty i can think of no other valid reason for a close season than giving us a rest without thinking we are missing something?

If no one or very few are fishing rivers and here in the south east that is the case,who is going to pay a club an increased club book price to fish them if the close season goes. People forget clubs pay a pro rata rate and that is why most clubs impose a close season on their stillwaters.Another third on some club book prices would spell the end.Please all bear in mind that the Severn and Trent are special cases and not the norm.

I suspect one reason why river fishing has declined in popularity in many [not all] places is directly because the close season ended on stillwaters. Those who wanted to carry on fishing moved on to stillwaters... carp fishing picked up even more... the pond owners did more stocking up on carp... many people simply voted with their bums and stayed sat around the local pit.

Not all river fishing is in decline. I went out on Sunday to fish the River Hull around Beverley, and I couldn't find a peg I wanted. I saw thirty to forty blokes [yes, all men] completely occupying one stretch, stood in the river with their waders on. [It fair took me back... I could almost hear Boddley on the juke box]. The Hull is an awkward river to fish - it has an enormous tidal range. When the tide turns, everybody takes their waders off, then they sit on their boxes, which they put on the peg where

[computer crash interlude over...it should read "Bo Diddley on the juke box"] ....which they put on the peg where they were previously standing.. Mud? You don't know the meaning of the word! Nothing could be more awkward then fishing the Hull, yet it's often that busy at the weekend - in reasonable weather. Mind you, it's free.

The close season for trout is much longer than that for coarse fish. Is anyone proposing to get rid of that? If not, why not and what is the difference?
Barbel anglers seem to be keen to keep the close season and come up with lots of arguments to support their case.
I have grown up with the close season and am happy to see it continue. I can have a rest or do a bit of stillwater fishing until the 16th.
Perhaps the most democratic thing to do would be to abolish it and let the clubs ballot their members on whether to retain it on their waters.