Answers please.

stravic · Feb 25, 2010

I am not aware if this topic has been mentioned before,but I understand that Cemex are requesting that Anglers fishing at least one fishery use barbed hooks from size 14 upwards.Also some clubs and fisheries are requesting the use of certain sizes to be barbed.....Plus I have noted criticism of barbless hooks as to tearing,damaging fishes mouths.

I have to say that on the one time I tried fishing a commercial the damage to fishes mouths was noticeable!.

geoffmaynard · Feb 25, 2010

So what is the question? is it:
Q.
Do barbed/barbless hooks damage fish?

Answer: No, poor unhooking damages fish.

Graham Whatmore · Feb 26, 2010

A perennial bone of contention on here which comes up almost as regular as the close season debate. Those that believe in either are, rightly or wrongly, immovable in their belief but the thinking on some fisheries is that barbed hooks do less damage to the mouth than barbless hooks because the barb doesn't allow for as much movement after it has penetrated.

Personally I think like a lot of anglers that more damage is done by careless removal than by the hook but were I to be restricted to barbed hooks it wouldn't bother me one little bit because I spent most of my fishing life using them and still do on rivers.

If it were proven to be true that barbed hooks are better for fish care then perhaps the match fisheries would make that switch back from barbless as the majority now are.

keora · Feb 26, 2010

I've never been convinced by the view that barbed hooks cause less damage than barbless. Stick a barbed hook in your hand by mistake - it will be painful to pull the hook and barb out, and there will be some damage to the skin.

I know there's a belief that a barbed hook stays in one position during playing a fish, and that this somehow results in less tissue damage. I've never seen any evidence to support this.

I believe that hook damage is caused when fish are caught repeatedly, and this is more likely to happen in overstocked stillwaters.

Graham Whatmore · Feb 26, 2010

"Stick a barbed hook in your hand by mistake - it will be painful to pull the hook and barb out, and there will be some damage to the skin"

And presumably if it was barbless it wouldn't ?

Oh! yes it will, and having suffered both, neither of which were that painful, then I disagree and I don't think that is a valid point for or against.

We are talking here about fish that fight against the pull of the angler, far better that the hook doesn't move causing little damage than a barbless hook that enlarges the hole. It isn't the pain of being hooked that makes a fish fight because if it was painful they wouldn't fight, simples, it is the fact that it is captured that it fights against as any animal would.

no-one in particular · Feb 26, 2010

I agree with Graham etc that it is poor unhooking or careless unhooking that causes a lot of the problems. However, how many anglers could swear that they never damaged a fish when unhooking a barbed hook; no matter how careful they were. A barbless slips out every time for me.

quickcedo · Feb 26, 2010

Mouth damage as far as I can see is mainly due to unbalance tackle ie 3.5lb test rod heavy line and small (ish) hook. The use of balanced tackle and good old fashioned fish playing skills result in less/no mouth damage reguardless of hook type. This of course also applies to pole fishing using very heavy/doubled elastic so as to retrieve not play fish.
I personally use barbed hooks wherever posssible, the barbs on modern hooks are very small and I can see no harm(to the fish) in using them.

slime monster · Feb 26, 2010

In 50 0dd years of fishing I for one can say that I have NEVER caught a fish that my hook had caused ripping to the mouth to a fish regardless of how big or small it was wether the hook was barbed or not .

no-one in particular · Feb 27, 2010

I suppose this will be one of those questions where everyone has an opinion. I think at the end of the day its down to what we personaaly experience that shapes how we all fish. For me it was fishing a day ticket lake 20 odd years ago with my brother and every fish we caught had mouth damage and a lot had no lips at all with the accompinent fungas and disease. I am sure this was caused by bad unhooking practises with barbed hooks. From then on I always have used barbless. I dont lose many fish so I dont have a problem with using barbless. Also I had a mate who wore a glove when he drove a barbed hook through his finger sea fishing. The barb took some glove with it which was dirty. His hand became the size of a grapefruit with severe blood poisioning and the last time I saw him there was talk of amputating his hand. I dont know what the outcome was, I havnt seen him for years. The point is would this have been as damaging with a barbless hook; a moot point I know but, worth some consideration.
Its news to me this debate about barbed hooks do less damage than unbarbed ones. If the barb is pulled completely through the mouth the sideways movement in the mouth should be no different than a barbless one. The barb would limit the amount of in and out movement though but, how much in and out movement happens when a fish is played?
If everyone was like you Slime then there would be no problem with barbed hooks but, how many are there?

tortoise100 · Feb 27, 2010

In my opinion you loose more fish with barbless but it is easy to unhook them.

With barbed deep hooked fish can be harder to unhook without damage .

I use a mixture of both unless the fishery demands barbless .

Ie QM1 are barbless but in my experiance the shape of the hook counts for more than if it has a barb or not.
Can't understand why these are the first circle hook in small sizes for course fishing when they are common in sea hooks.

honslow · Mar 1, 2010

I used to have chemically sharpened barbless hooks cause horrendous slash wounds to the inside of chubs' mouths whenever I struck too hard (which is most of the time). Never have had that problem with barbed hooks of the same basic shape and size. Never use barbless any more (and never fish anywhere that demands their use). Barbless hooks can slip under pressure or when you set them...

no-one in particular · Mar 2, 2010

Hard playing of fish could be a reason

It has occured to me that a reason some people are finding more damage to fish on commercials that have a barbless policy:- It is more critical to keep a tight line when playing a fish when using barbless which results in the fish being pulled more and this maybe the main reason barbless are causing more damage. I certainly possibly fall into this catogorie. When I used to fish barbed hooks I was more relaxed about playing a fish and gave it more chance to play itself out. This has just occered to me and I will have to maybe change how I play fish in the future.
Anyone else think this could be the reason for more damage done with barbless; its not the hook but, the fish getted bullied more?

Stealph Viper · Mar 2, 2010

Mark,

I have no problem with the Playing of fish using Barbless Hooks, i think that most of the Damage is doing during the Unhooking of fish rather than the playing of them.

I certainly wouldn't beat myself up over using Barbless hooks to catch fish with.

no-one in particular · Mar 2, 2010

Yes, I dont have a problem about it, its just that unconciously I probably play a fish harder when using barbless and I think that might apply to a lot of anglers; which in turn maybe the reason for the damage being reported as opposed to barbed hooks.

Stealph Viper · Mar 2, 2010

I don't think either hook would change the way that i consciously play a fish, it is more likely to be the Tackle and size of fish being played and the venue itself which would change how i play a fish.

no-one in particular · Mar 4, 2010

Just wondering

I think I probably play fish differently using barbless. I just get more do or die about keeping a tight line on the fish than when using barbed hooks; although it has been a long time since I used barbed hooks. I just seem to remember being more relaxed about keeping a tight line then as I was more confident that the hook would stay in. So, I think this makes me pull harder than I used to. I think this would cause a larger hole in the fish's mouth than anything.
If a lot of anglers did the same conciously or not, could this be the reason why the reports of barbless doing more damage than barbed hooks; as mentioned at the beginning of thread.
Afterall the reports are of larger holes appearing in the fish which would be consistent with this. Not something that could be easily tested though but, worth thinking about maybe.

Stealph Viper · Mar 4, 2010

I really do not want to get in to the old Barbed / Barbless debate, follow the fishery rules, if you don't like them rules, don't fish there.

If your conscience tells you that what you are doing is harming the fish, don't do it, as you will just not enjoy it anyway.

Find what you are happy and comfortable with, and stick to it.

Good Luck.

no-one in particular · Mar 6, 2010

Fair enough Stealph

I didnt want to get into that debate either. Was just interested in the reasons behind the place that was making a barbed only rule as questioned at the start of the thread and why they thought barbless caused more harm. As to changing the way I fish; probably couldn't now anyway...good luck ditto.

Answers please.

stravic

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geoffmaynard

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Graham Whatmore

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keora

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Graham Whatmore

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no-one in particular

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quickcedo

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slime monster

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tortoise100

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honslow

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Stealph Viper

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Stealph Viper

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