Abolition of the close Season

I've just read Johns article & have to agree that the poll sample of 400 people was far too small.

We must have a few thousand anglers on the FM forums - why can't we have our own poll. Could that be done easily Graham?
The result would have to be more meaningful than the one quoted.

The coarse fish close season was introduced at a time when virtually all fish caught went into the pot. Today, as virtually all fish are returned to the water the close season is redundant. It wasn't brought in to protect the ****y birds, or to allow anglers to do the decorating, or even to allow the grass to grow. I am sure that the traditionalists can come up with many more reasons why it should be retained but the fact remains that it is no longer required for the original reason.
I'd guess that these days most people choose to fish on stillwaters during the old close season. Those that choose not to, for ethical reasons, have my respect but those who continue to fish stillwaters between March & June and who then cry 'we must retain the close season on rivers' can only be described as hypocrites'

Oops, Sorry Jeff , got the name wrong again!

Must be getting old - the tubbin syndrome kicks in a lot more often these days!

The feeling up here - I was surrprised but I'm told it's the prevailing view - is that clubs could have to pay another three months' rent and they'd suffer financially as hardly anyone fishes the rivers in any case.

I often fish three or four rivers or different stretches in a day and seldom see more than aa handful of anglers.

You've been up here a few times Baz, you know what it's like.

I think it probaably varies regionally. When I lived and fished in Devon I rarely saw other anglers on favourite bits of the Exe.

I always areed with a close season and still abide by the regulations.
However as soon as it became leagal to fish still waters all year I was on the bank.
It was then i started to think why have a close season on rivers but not on still waters?
I have seen fish spawning a lot earlier than than March, and also a lot later than June.
This is also true in still waters and to be honest i have not seen any adverse effect on the Fish and other wildlife.
Also there are more eyes and ears on the bank.
A close season was the traditional time to carry out environmental improvements that benefitted us and the wildlife, but at the same time works could do more harm to the environment if no foresight was used.

So the argument that a river close season was there to give fish and other wildlife may be a bit lame.
Even with no Anglers on a river bank, you would still have walkers, dogs, boats, vandalism, Flood defence works etc, All of which cause more damage and disturbance than anglers.

Nowdays Fishery / environment improvements are more sympathetic. There are guidlines that you can obtain from the EA.

Its easy, just phone them up and ask for The fresh water fisheries & wildlfe conservation guide.
They will send it free of charge along with
many other usefull booklets.
You may wish to enrole on an Environmental conservation program. Check out your local Field study centre.

We need full consultation between Anglers, the EA and relevent government departments.
Also a full Environmental study over several years involving the above mentioned.

Maybe a trial period on some stretches of river in variouse locations evenley spread throughout the UK.
I think we should also look at how a non close season works in other countries and consult with their relevent organisations.

Me, well im still open minded on this issue and await any research/ivestigation on this matter.
To be honest im now not to sure why a close season was introduced, I've read and been told of many diferent reasons for it.

It would indeed be interesting to run a poll about this issue on FM, mainly because we have a good cross-section of visitors rather than those who are seriously biased one way or the other.

I'll see if I can set one up.

I fully agree that a sample of 400 anglers is too small. I am, however, of the opposite persuasion. Not only would I like to retain the close season on rivers I would also like to see it reintroduced on stillwaters. On some of my local lakes which now have year round fishing there have been serious problems with the carp. Various things have been blamed and certain types of fishing (particles etc.) banned. It seems stange to me that baits etc. should be put forward as the reason for these problems as the problems did not occur prior to year round fishing. There do not appear to be any problems with the carp in waters owned by other clubs which retain the close season, although these fish are roughly the same age. The intense pressure created by increased angling activity in the old close season is a far more likely cause in my opinion. I believe that everything needs a rest and year round pressure cannot be good for the fish. Also the bankside vegetation needs time to recover. The close season also roughly coincides with bird nesting times. On a well known local tench water the close season was scrapped the reintroduced. The fishing improved when the close season was reintroduced. What seems to happen with the current situation is that "The Circus" move from water to water after excessive pressure has made the fishing difficult. If the close season was in force on all waters they would have to decide where to fish and stick to it for a while at least. This should reduce unnecessary pressure on some waters. I fully agree that not all fish spawn during the close season but the dates are suitable for birds etc. For the majority of fish the best time for a close season may be the complete months of April, May and June with fishing allowed during the other nine complete months. I cannot help but feel that those in favour of scrapping the close season are partly motivated by greed and selfish motives. There is one advantage of a close season for many of us that is not often mentioned. A close season gives three months to focus on all of the domestic chores (gardening, decorating etc.) and for taking family holidays. Once the chores are done and the holiday is takesn then fishing can be concentrated on for the other nine months. It is too easy to get sidetracked without fiixed dates and a mountain of uncompleted tasks can suddenly appear at peak fishing times.

Jeff, I like the close season & I won't scratch your car!
I think some of the clubs do as well as rent would go up without the added interest. Here in Dorset I'm told the people want still water.

Maybe the lack of response to many of these vexing issues regarding close season is the potential abuse anyone recieves from anyone from the opposing camps, good natured or not. Recent postings on some other threads bear this out.

The other issue perhaps (head over the parapet) is boredom???
ie every March the same old discussion, arguments, gauntlets etc get thrown down.
There's those that believe & those that don't.

Maybe in Graham, some way of voting (once), could be arranged to appease those who want the figures, maybe interesting, change minds I think not.

As for the Great Close Season debate - well believe it or not I've just been given permission to go fishing so 'I'll see ya later'.

Another point for consideration. I have kept fish for many years. I have quite a large pond with more than adequate filtration. Parasites and bacteria are inactive during the winter months. The fish, although they appear in prime condition, are vulnerable at this time of year. They are not as active in the winter and need time to adjust to the warmer conditions. The parasites become more active as the water warms up. Although the fish are usually able to cope with this they become vulnerable if they are stressed. This can lead to bacterial infections which often cause lesions and ulcers. Viral infections can affect a large number of fish. I have not had any problems for many years as my system runs well and the fish are not stressed in any way. The period when the water warms up after the winter is covered by the old close season. By 16th June the fish have fully adjusted from the winter. On this basis the old close season makes a lot of sense. I do not think that it is purely coincidence that there have been problems with fish, carp in particular, in waters which are fished all year round. I believe that the problems are caused by stress caused by over fishing at a time of the year when the parasites and bacteria are becomming more active. By the time the traditional season starts the fish have adjusted to the increased biological activity. Some clubs close their waters on a rota basis. I do not think this is a good idea as the waters which are open during the spring receive increased pressure as other waters are closed. I believe that we should reintroduce the old close season in the interests of the fish. If the close season cannot be reintroduced then I believe that all waters should be open all year round. Although I do not believe that this is in the best interests of the fish at least angling pressure would be spread over more waters during the spring, which may prevent the excessive pressure on some waters and would benfit the fish in these waters. I cannot help but feel that the abolition of the close season was driven by greed and commercial interests.

A poll would be interesting, although the questions would have to be worded very carefully.

Rather than having a simple yes or no answer to its abolition (assuming that this is what we would be voting on), I think we ought to be given a chance to vote for a change in the close season, some of us perhaps recognising the fact that this law might be flawed and could be improved upon.

This could mean a change in its duration, its start and/or finish date, depending on local conditions... whatever.

Personally, I am in favour of retaining the close season on rivers as it stands at present, unless a better solution can be found. The close season may not
be perfect, but generally speaking, I would prefer to retain it in some way, shape or form rather than abolish it completely.

I agree with Richard that any poll should not be a simple yes/no. I think that we should consider that whatever close season is in force it should apply to stillwaters and rivers. This prevents too much pressure. The current situation is very bad because waters can be hammered and then people move onto either other stillwaters which have been closed or the rivers on 16th June. If there was a close season in force people would have to make choices and pressure would be more even. I am very much in favour of a close season and, although the dates of the old one are not perfect, I think they are probably as good as any for the reasons I have outlined in my previous comments on this thread. Unfortunately the nature of modern society means a results at any cost mentality so the welfare of fish and other wildlife is not as important as instant success for many people. Many of the anglers who have started river fishing since the abolition of the close season on stillwaters are from the instant success brigade. This can only be a bad thing for our rivers. Although I am a strong supporter of the close season if this cannot be reintroduced on stillwaters I would probably be in favour of scrapping it on rivers. At least that would stop the current trend of some stillwaters being hammered and then the circus moving onto the rivers. This would ease some of the pressure (yes we do have pressure on many stretches of river regardless of the words of Big Des)and although it may dent a few egos as the circus would be unable to dominate so many waters, I believe that fishing for most anglers would improve. Not everybody is a match angler or a carp angler. The fish would be less stressed and as a result in better condition. Please consider these points carefully. I think a blanket close season is the best option but failing this all waters should be open. The current situation is, surely, not in the best interests of the fish and will, in the long run, have a detimental effect on the sport in general.

Dave in one of your posts you said "I cannot help but feel that those in favour of scrapping the close season are partly motivated by greed and selfish motives."

My objection to the close season is that it achives nothing positive a view that was supported by the DEFRA Salmon and Fresh Water Fisheries Review which found that there was NO scientific basis to support a closed season for course fish.

You continue....

"There is one advantage of a close season for many of us that is not often mentioned. A close season gives three months to focus on all of the domestic chores (gardening, decorating etc.) and for taking family holidays. Once the chores are done and the holiday is takesn then fishing can be concentrated on for the other nine months. It is too easy to get sidetracked without fiixed dates and a mountain of uncompleted tasks can suddenly appear at peak fishing times."

To me that sounds very much like you enjoy fishing hard for 9 months and then taking a break to catch up on all the things that have been neglected in that period.

The reality is that if you can fish whenever you want then you tend to fish when conditions are right and do jobs around the house when they need doing rather than save them up e.g. today I sorted out my garage because the water I am fishing at the moment is inundated with people out walking during bank holiday weekends.

My experience of the abolition of the closed season on lakes and canals has been a totally positive one.

The only reason to keep the closed season would be if it were needed to protect the welfare of the fish and or other wildlife.

There is a serious flaw in your suggestion that those who want to abolish the closed season are being selfish and greedy when their arguement is simply that the closed season does nothing for the welfare of fish or wildlife.

Hi Andy,
Do you know where I might be able to read the Salmon and Fresh Water Fisheries Review which you mention?

The statement "NO scientific basis to support a closed season for course fish" could mean almost anything.
It would depend on how the survey was conducted as well as the parameters set.

I find it very difficult to understand how any close season wouldn't benefit the welfare of fish or wildlife.

For those interested in this debate I suggest that you look at the Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Review

It is in PDF format and might take a couple of minutes to download, well worth looking at though.

Hi Andy,
I wondered how many posts I would have to enter to get a response. I would like to answer some of your comments. Regarding scientific evidence it is a known fact that fish take time to adjust when the temperature begins to rise in the spring. It is also a fact that parasites and bacteria are inactive in the winter but rapidly become active in the spring. If fish are stressed then they are very vulnerable at this time of year. Ask any fish breeder or dealer. The current situation does put a lot of pressure on waters that are open. This is certainly the case in my area. It may well be different where you live. All I am saying is that all waters should be treated the same. My own preference would be for a close season on all waters, but if this cannot be then I would prefer for all waters to be open, stillwaters and rivers. This would surely even out the pressure on fish at the time of the year when they are most vulnerable. I stick by what I said about some anglers being selfish and greedy. Obviously I am not talking about anglers like yourself. The people I am referring to are 'The Circus'. These people have huge egos and are motivated by publicity and cash. They usually fish waters where others have been successful and stay there until the fishing has been ruined for those who regularly fish these waters. They then move on to other waters and do the same. This is not sour grapes as I catch quite a few good fish myself.
Regarding fishing time I am not able to fish whenever I like. Work and family commitments see to that. In the summer and autumn I usually fish a couple of evenings during the week plus a half or full day on Saturday. In the winter things are different as I am unable to get in from work early enough to fish in the evening. I fish either a half or full day on Saturday plus a couple of hours on Sunday evening. As I get more leave than my wife we often have a holiday together either in the close season or the summer and I have the rest of my leave for fishing. I always have time off at the end of the season and if I have sufficient leave try to have some time off in October. I would love to be able to fish more but unless I come into a large sum of money, which is extremely unlikely, I will have to stick to my current routine. I do some chores during the fishing months but find it is easier to focus on them in the close season, especially as this is the best time to sort the garden out. I have tried close season fishing but did not enjoy it, even though I have caught some big fish in this period including personal bests for carp and tench. I will stick to my current routine of doing the chores in the close season.
You mention canals. I have no experience of these since my childhood in the West Midlands. I amagine they are far busier with non-anglers than the pits and rivers I fish. If there are a lot of non-angling people around then I guess the effect on wildlife caused by anglers would be minimal. Most of the waters I fish are not frequented by non-anglers and I feel sure that scrapping the close season on these waters would have an adverse effect on the birds at nesting time. This is just my personal opinion.
I would like to see a lot more discussion on this thread to get as many diverse viewpoints as possible. If a poll were to follow I feel it should be done in two parts. Part 1 would ask for views on reinstating the close season on stillwaters. After the results of this were known Part 2 would ask for views on scrapping the close season on rivers. I would like it done in this way as, although I am in favour of the close season, I would like consistency and, if we cannot reintroduce the close season on stillwaters then I would, reluctantly, vote in favour of scrapping the close season on rivers.
Thoughts and comments please.

Some more grist to the mill.
First, one of the reasons for Angling Times support of the abolition of the close season is that they simply have nothing to report at the moment! Until the 8th April they were still running reports of river catches from March. Now there is very little to report with many of the still waters shut as well. Years ago in April they would run lots on trout and even salmon but all this has long gone.
Second, DEFRA, formerly MAFF, I would trust as far as I could sling them. These are the people who got foot and mouth wrong, didn't know the difference between 2 types of cormorants, and advocated slinging loads of DDT, nitrates and pesticides over the land for decades. With that track record I would take any scientific output from them with a shovelful of salt.
Thirdly, determining what's in a river is a logistics nightmare, never mind assesing the impact of angling. I get the 5 years survey reports on the Hants Avon and Dorset Stour from the EA. Even they admit that simple differences in weed growth and timing may skew the results, never mind stock fluctuations due to good/bad spawning years.
Fourth, Dave Slater makes the good point re the "circus". These are the people that catch "hundreds" of big chub from the same swim over the course of two or three years though there may be as few as a dozen fish there. Pressure is an understatement.
Fifth, much of the Hants Avon is SSSI. English Nature tend to enforce the close season on stillwaters that are SSSI, though where this leaves the Avon is anyone's guess as it is salmon fished during the spring.
Finally, I'll shut up now, here in Dorset it is that game fishing mentioned in the previous point that tends to dictate when we coarse anglers have access, certainly on the Avon and Frome (not the Stour). Over the years the start date on the Avon has see-sawed from August to September, back to July, and finally to 16th June.
Back to the float making.

AT still has plenty to report. Carp are the major species these days and those who fish for them are in turn the major target market for many of their advertisers.

I am very surprised you read publications like Angling Times Mark. I think the weeklies are one of the reasons we now have some of the more undesirable elements of the carp fraternity on the rivers. I think Chris Bishop's point about major target market and advertisers shows where these people are coming from. Angling has become far too commercial. I pity newcomers to the sport as they must miss out on the nice atmosphere that used to exist. Also Mark I fully endorse your views on government bodies. I think they are a wate of space and, like yourself, I wouldn't give them house room.

Dave

?Regarding scientific evidence it is a known fact that fish take time to adjust when the temperature begins to rise in the spring.?

This is a very sweeping species non-specific generalisation. You could equally say that fish are vulnerable in summer because of low water levels and high temperatures?. and the close season put (and puts in the case of the rivers) more anglers on the bank through the summer.

?It is also a fact that parasites and bacteria are inactive in the winter but rapidly become active in the spring. If fish are stressed then they are very vulnerable at this time of year. Ask any fish breeder or dealer.?

Fish breeders deal with fish in artificial circumstances where large numbers of fish are kept in small amounts of water. Such fish are subject to far more stress than their wild counterparts. Over-stocking may well lead to the situation you describe but that is an issue with the levels of stocking the EA allow not the closed season.

? The current situation does put a lot of pressure on waters that are open. This is certainly the case in my area. It may well be different where you live. All I am saying is that all waters should be treated the same. My own preference would be for a close season on all waters, but if this cannot be then I would prefer for all waters to be open, stillwaters and rivers.?

I do agree that all waters should be treated the same. Just as the closed season caused there to be loads of anglers on the bank for the first two weeks of March and the last two weeks of June the closed season on rivers puts more anglers on still waters in the river closed season creating an artificial glut of anglers. From October 6th to March 14th I didn?t fish stillwaters and during the last week of the river season I fished 6 out of 7 nights in temperatures down to -2C. Had there been no closed season my fishing and that of many other anglers fishing the rivers would not have been as intense in that last week. Come June 16th and the crays will be so active it won?t be worth fishing until the water cools down in October/November

?This would surely even out the pressure on fish at the time of the year when they are most vulnerable.?

Personally I think a keepnet ban in June, July and August would achieve far more for the welfare of the fish.

?I stick by what I said about some anglers being selfish and greedy. Obviously I am not talking about anglers like yourself. The people I am referring to are 'The Circus'. These people have huge egos and are motivated by publicity and cash. They usually fish waters where others have been successful and stay there until the fishing has been ruined for those who regularly fish these waters. They then move on to other waters and do the same.?

The way to deal with this is to have publicity bans on waters. Publicity for catches from a named water often leads to very negative consequences. Personally I have by choice not reported a single fish to the papers since August 1993. In that decade I have caught a fair few lumps e.g. in the last year I?ve had Tench 10lb 12oz, Bream 16lb 5oz , Chub 7lb 13 oz, Barbel 12lb 15 oz (very big for the river it came from) and Perch 4lb 1oz .

?Regarding fishing time I am not able to fish whenever I like. Work and family commitments see to that. In the summer and autumn I usually fish a couple of evenings during the week plus a half or full day on Saturday. In the winter things are different as I am unable to get in from work early enough to fish in the evening. I fish either a half or full day on Saturday plus a couple of hours on Sunday evening. As I get more leave than my wife we often have a holiday together either in the close season or the summer and I have the rest of my leave for fishing. I always have time off at the end of the season and if I have sufficient leave try to have some time off in October. I would love to be able to fish more but unless I come into a large sum of money, which is extremely unlikely, I will have to stick to my current routine. I do some chores during the fishing months but find it is easier to focus on them in the close season, especially as this is the best time to sort the garden out. I have tried close season fishing but did not enjoy it, even though I have caught some big fish in this period including personal bests for carp and tench. I will stick to my current routine of doing the chores in the close season.?

I have no problem with anyone who wants to observe a closed season but I should be allowed to fish in that period unless there is a good reason not to allow it. From all that I have read and observed since the abolition of the closed season I can see no reason to keep it on rivers other than tradition and to give anglers a break. To my mind neither of those reasons is sufficient to justify its existence.

?You mention canals. I have no experience of these since my childhood in the West Midlands. I imagine they are far busier with non-anglers than the pits and rivers I fish. If there are a lot of non-angling people around then I guess the effect on wildlife caused by anglers would be minimal.?

Until May (half-way through the old closed season) there is very little Canal boat activity.
I?ve always thought the wildlife argument to be flawed in that trout anglers, boats and walkers etc could and did spend time on and around the water all through the closed season.

?Most of the waters I fish are not frequented by non-anglers and I feel sure that scrapping the close season on these waters would have an adverse effect on the birds at nesting time. This is just my personal opinion.?

This is more related to the effect of man on his environment and is not really related to the closed season. There can be negatives to man not being present in an area such as pollution or poaching going unnoticed

?I would like to see a lot more discussion on this thread to get as many diverse viewpoints as possible.?

I agree

?If a poll were to follow I feel it should be done in two parts. Part 1 would ask for views on reinstating the close season on stillwaters. After the results of this were known Part 2 would ask for views on scrapping the close season on rivers. I would like it done in this way as, although I am in favour of the close season, I would like consistency and, if we cannot reintroduce the close season on stillwaters then I would, reluctantly, vote in favour of scrapping the close season on rivers.?

Seems fair enough

Mark,

?Some more grist to the mill.
First, one of the reasons for Angling Times support of the abolition of the close season is that they simply have nothing to report at the moment! Until the 8th April they were still running reports of river catches from March. Now there is very little to report with many of the still waters shut as well. Years ago in April they would run lots on trout and even salmon but all this has long gone.?

The closed season debate is nothing new and the dearth of news has more to do with anglers not reporting their catches than to do with the time of year. Whilst tidying my garage at the weekend I found an AT from the end of the 90-91 season. Dave Slater was in it a 5lb 3oz Chub sporting a comic relief red nose and guess what?. The closed season debate was the subject of a headlined article.

?Second, DEFRA, formerly MAFF, I would trust as far as I could sling them. These are the people who got foot and mouth wrong, didn't know the difference between 2 types of cormorants, and advocated slinging loads of DDT, nitrates and pesticides over the land for decades. With that track record I would take any scientific output from them with a shovelful of salt.?

The Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Review appears to be very well argued, objective and a positive step towards better fisheries management in the future. Should we ignore it because of past mistakes by MAFF ?