pesky roach!!!

Ok experts, can you tell me how to solve this one?
I have recently taken up pole fishing, at my local pond.

The best bait for that pond is the old trusty bread.

However, whilst the pole gives me great accuracy, and good bite indications, I have a problem.

There are crucian, a few small commons, koi, goldfish,tench, sturgeon and millions(it seems) of roach.

The problem is this. I will plonk my bread in the water and I get the same thing over & over again.
The float bobs & bobs & bobs & bobs, but doesnt go under. I know this will be the roach nibbling at the bread, but they end up taking all the bread off the hook without a single positive bite!
I dont mind catching the roach, but when the float does eventually go under, it's too quick for me to stike for!
What do I do? I've tried big bits of bread & teeny pieces - no joy.

Any and all advice will be much appreciated.

Jason Id say it is probably the crucian not the roach,,,,,,, You just need to get faster.

although I said there was some in the pond there aint that many crucian in there - but there are some decent sized ones though.
It's so depressing, I can sit there in my normal spot with my float right next to a patch of floating lilies watching the float bobbing and bobbing and bobbing, then all of a sudden, after about 10 minutes of the fish constantly pushing my bait around ,and bobbing the float, the float will go under for half a second - how do you strike for that?? there's no time to react!! Even when you strike when the float is on it's way under(which is hard to know cos the float's constantly bobbing), the float has popped back up before the hook can be set.
I was taught that you strike when the float goes under and stays under for a reasonable period of time. Was I taught wrongly?

Dot the float down as low as you can, it might be they can feel the float as the take the bait and are spitting it out, Also try feeding some liquidised bread around you float to try to get them competing for the feed, a small nuget the size of a walnut will keep them going for a while and don't refeed till the bites become cagey again or tail off.

I do the liquidised bread thing all the time when I'm fishing with bread on the hook Rodney. except I put a small amount of highoil trout pellet powder and liquidised hempseed in it. that brings the fish in much better, and the pellet powder fizzes the water (a) attracting fish, (b)showing you exactly where your loosefeed is so you can stick the float right in the middle every time. Catch crucian, tench big roach like that.
Caught the sturgeon too using that method.

I'm not good at converting weights, but my float takes 1bb, 1 No 4, 1 No 8. what would that convert to for the grouping of shot you are suggesting Rodney?
And how many of which weights in each grouping? I normally have just 1bb at the float and the 4 & 8 I put halfway between float & hooklength.

If you cant hook them then why do you think bread is the best bait??
Try maggots, caster, sweetcorn, worms etc. - baits the fish cant break to pieces from the hook. With that many fish present you must be able to catch with other baits.

Rasmus, Denmark

For shotting pole floats I don't use any shot bigger than a No8, so I use No8's as the bulk and No10's or No12's as droppers.

Here's a conversion of Shot weights:

SSG = 1.6g
AAA = 0.81g
BB = 0.4g
No1 = 0.28g
No4 = 0.20g
No6 = 0.10g
No8 = 0.06g
No10 = 0.04g
No12 = 0.025g

I use a Float shotter which is a small neutral buoyancy container which the float clips on to and drop the shot into untill the float is sitting at the depth I want then I can make up the rig and it's just a case of adding a No10 or 12 shot to set the tip up or down in the water when I get to the venue.

Rodney,
how do you use such small shot? I really have a problem with anything under a 6.

Move the bottom shot nearer the hook.

Try a bigger hook.

I'm begining to struggle a bit myself Stu, but I'm just managing it at the moment, soon be time for a bigger float though....maybe try for carp more often )

but ive got nearly 3 years till im 30 and just cannot do small shot!

I hate using dust shot too - I have more of a problem, cos I bite my nails, so I find it hard to open tiny pieces of shot!

Rodney mate, thanks for the little conversion table. I've printed it out and taped it to the lid of my hook box.

According to your table,the weight needed to cock my float takes .30g

The depth where I fish is only about 12inches, so I'll use 4 no8 as bulk shot, but cant decide on what to use for droppers - what would be best for a 12" hooklength 10s or 12s???

Stu,
I open the split with a craft knife blade, put the shot on my finger and lay the line across the split and keep the line straight (but not tight as this stretches the line and it can weaken it when the line is released, as it tries to shrink back) then bite the shot gently on, I guess I've just been lucky up till now but I'm sure technique helps. There's a new product that came out recently which is a small pot of uncut shot, on top of the pot is a device which puts a split in it and fastens it to the line with a twist of the lid or something like that, have a look......New Anchor Quickshot

Jason,
If the water is only 12" then I would use a 5" hooklength and place 1 dropper on it, but I don't really like to add shot to delecate hooklengths. I would set the bulk and use 1xNo10 then 2xNo12's, this might vary on the venue you fish and the float might need 2xNo8's and 1xNo12, it depends on the neustron (the surface tension of the water in the venue) this varies from venue to venue.

That's why I shot the float at home till the float is sitting with the whole bristle showing, then at the venue I'll add dropper shot till the bristle is dotted down at least half way (after plumbing the swim, as the whole tip showing gives a better indication of the contours).

Another thing I should mention is that when making up the bulk, people tend to pull the line tight, when biting on the shot, try not to do this as it means the line is under stress when released again as it can't shrink back to it's original shape, and for the same reason leave a couple of mm's between each shot in the bulk as if you don't when line tries to go back into shape it can pull the bulk into a slight bend which will spin through the water resuting in another tangle.

Cheers Rodney. talking about stress on the line - how about placing the line thru pieces of fine diameter pole float rubbers under the shot? or is that too much hassle to make it worthwhile?


I ask this, because the pole float rubbers I bought were made by drennan, in a pink pack(?1) with 3 sizes of tubing which you cut to the length required.
On the back of this pack, they suggest this idea.

That's o.k. with a bb or No4 shot but you wouldn't be able to close a No8 or smaller around the tubing, or the shot would just spring off as it wouldn't be able to grip the diametre, even using normal line (non hi tech or pre stretched line) can make closing the shot awkward.

Thats what I was thinking. I see you changed your photo - again!

yep, got bored with the other one, I'll leave this one up for a while though.

Rasmus Keis:

Sorry it took a while to answer you, but I continue to use bread, as other baits dont seem to work as well as you might think.
Maggots attract the roach, the fish seldom take sweetcorn, and boilies/pellets dont work. trout pellet powder works in the groundbait, but pellets on the hook dont work.
also meat doesnt work very often either. It's a hard pond to fish.
As I have said in my thread (in the coarse fishing forum section) about bread(Which no-one has replied to yet!!!) bread is the only bait what will attract fish when nothing else does.

gotta go. Time to leave work and go home. C U All 2moro!!

As I said, the magggots attract the roach, and that is what has been pestering me. I skyved off from work yesterday, and spent the day at the pond. Using single maggot on the hook, I was pulling little roach out all day long. So it wasnt the crucian Kiwi, it was roach - caught the smaller sturgeon on meat aswell. No sign of the crucian or tench all day, but then, there's always 2moro!

So now, like Baldrick, I need to devise a cunning plan.....

Just how do you attract the crucian & tench, whilst getting rid of the roach?
I cannot fish thru the roach, cos I would be there for days if I tried that! I filled my keepnet right up with only 4 or 5 hours fishing yesterday. And there was still loads more to catch! If you like catching roach, Brinkburn Pond is for you!

Jason Lennon hi,if you want to aviod roach
then use a fishmeal based groundbait as roach are adverse to the stuff laced with mollasses and hook samples,hook wise use either betain based micro pellets or brandlings with corn or caster cocktails
or just good old corn on its own (or flavioured/coloured)or use a chopped worm & caster approch