The Truth about Braided Lines

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Wolfman Woody

Guest
This article is absolutely true! I did write to Dave Chilton about a ban on braid our club had and this was his reply. I've been pestering ever since for him to get it published as it might answer, as he says, a lot of the concerns that some of you might still have.
I'm using more and more braided hook lengths now because of it. What are your thoughts?
 
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goff dyer

Guest
Brilliant article Jeff, Dave certainly put braid across a lot friendlier than i thought.
 
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lee stopps

Guest
i think the above article is superb and really has explained some unknowns to me that previously fellow anglers and tackle shops alike have not been able to do so cleary...

thanks for publishing it

Lee stopps
 
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Andy Nellist

Guest
Didn't agree with all Dave said but then I'm always sceptical about anyone who clearly has a conflicting interest in the subject at hand.

Some of the stuff on mono ignores the fact that whilst mono is a single fibre it can still change shape and also has stretch which most of the braids do not. Stretch makes a huge difference to the way a material under tension behave and that is not really covered.

Personally i use mono up to 6.6 lb (silstar match) and from there upwards invariably use braid (usually one of Daves products)

That Kryston turn out reliable quality gear is beyond doubt and i use multi- strand, snakeskin, supernova and silkworm on a regular basis.
 
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Wolfman Woody

Guest
I just want to add to what you're saying Andy, as you do seem to like Kryston products anyway. Don't you think that someone who is passionate about using a type of material is entitled to develop that product to be the best available and then shout from the roftops about it?

It seems to me that this is what Dave Chilton has done. It's hardly a conflicting interest because he could, if he so desired, manufacture other products such as monofilament. Perhaps you have fed him with ideas even. Don't be surprised if you see Kryston monofilament lines in future.

And please don't anyone think that I am in anyway connected with Kryston. I wrote to Dave and his reply must have been so time consuming and good that I though it warranted publication, that's why I passed it to Graham and he cleared it with Dave. End of story.
 
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Andy Nellist

Guest
Jeff, I do indeed like Krystons products and use them a great deal. I also agreed with much of what Dave said.

My caution was a general one. If you get advice from someone about a type of product, and that person has an interest in products of that type, you should bear that in mind and realise that their advice may not be entirely objective.

I'd like to see Kryston puting more lighter versions of their products on the market. in particular lighter versions of multistrand and supernova... 6lb and 8 lb would be great in both.
 
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Dave Slater

Guest
Andy,
I use Silkworm in lighter versions as well as the heavier ones and find it very reliable. The 6lb is my standard chub hooklink material and I sometimes use the 4lb for roach. I wonder if Kryston could come up with something similar to 5lb Spiderwire for feeder fishing as this seems to be unavailable now.
 
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Wolfman Woody

Guest
II appreciate what you're saying Andy and I too am probably one of the most sceptical people you could wish to meet. I'm the one who is usually first to say "Well, he would say that wouldn't he."
In this case Dave Chilton is an angler like us first and foremost. I believe what he has done is to take braided lines to the the edge, on strength and quality, but most of all safety.
Dave Slater, here, obviously likes them too.
 
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Tim Birch

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I'm probably not helping alot with the case for braid, and would myself rather use it on more of the waters I fish as I do believe it does offer a better presentation in the earlier or later hours (as it is far more visable during the day), however I dont believe using multistrand as an example of flattening properties as this is not a braid. It is as it says on the tin multistrand.
Braid when pulled taught buches together and does get a thinner profile much more likely to cut.
Although i believe if used properly the damaging effects of braid can be reduced (by not bullying the fish in for a start), braid will cut a fish easier than mono of the same diameter.
The truth is out there, just have look at a good handful of fish from similar fisheries where braid is allowed and were braid has never been allowed, the evidence would speak for itself.
I can only apologise to Dave chiltern for outlining this , and I do use his excellent Multistrand, Leadcore and other products myself.
I do actually use braid when allowed as I do believe it works, but with an underlying feeling of guilt.
Maybe a multistrand idea which has some kind of gel or pva coating to reduce tangles, or fluorocarbon multistrand if possible may be a safer logical step.
 
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Jeremy Airey

Guest
One small innaccuracy in DC's article and that is statement that you can not pull harder than the test curve of the rod - that's just plain wrong. The limiting factor of how of much pressure you can apply through a rod is the reel clutch and the line strength - that's the simple explanation before we start talking levers and such.
That said the rest of the article is 100% - nice one Mr.C.
regards
Jeremy
 
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Steve Reeves

Guest
Snipped:
"Mono will always break at its weakest point which is the knot tied to the rig. The end result will be the fish swimming away with nothing more than a short hooklength which loosens its grip in as little as a few hours, certainly within a couple of days, and the hook coming free."
..........................................
I will agree Mono will break at it's weakest point, but I can't agree that the weakest point is always "the knot tied to the rig".

He then goes on to say a hooklength lost in a fish "loosens it's grip in as little as a few hours, certainly within a couple of days, and the hook coming free."

Think for a minute or two about the above statement.
How can he be certain that the hook will come free?
He can't.
Not unless he knows which fish it was that that got away, and then saw the same fish a few hours later minus the hook.

Think about it.
 
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Wolfman Woody

Guest
Steeve, can I say that I edited Dave's original letter considerably in order to reduce it's size to a manageable amount of text. The section you refer to were followed by this paragraph:


"Should anybody doubt that is possible here is a little trick that has been used by experienced car anglers for the past 20 years or so. Sometimes a hook can be difficult to remove because a fish can go into shock, it's muscles flex into a rigid state creating spasm. Simply cut the hook from the rig and place the carp into a sack for a few hours or overnight. When you next check the contents of the sack you will find the hook has fallen out due to the carp relaxing."


At the time, I didn't think it was necessary to keep this text in, but it hsows how eagle-eyed you all are. Dave did, as you see, cover it and he okayed the final text after I edited it. Whether it answers your point or not is another matter, but I apoloigise now for not including it.
 
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Jeremy Airey

Guest
Jeff
I don't want to be contentious but I reckon Steve makes a very good point which your quote only addresses in a few very specific cases.
What experienced carp anglers have or haven't done for the last 20 years is only an indication of what might happen and one relating only to a pretty narrow set of circumstances.
I for one have caught fish with hooks still in them, how long they have been there I just couldn't say. I have even caught fish where the flesh has grown over the remains of a hook but unlike DC's inference in the omitted paragraph I wouldn't suggest it happened a significant amount of the time.
regards
Jeremy Airey
 
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Wolfman Woody

Guest
It's Dave Chilton's piece, I can't answer for him of course, but I take him to mean that the hook is easier to extract once the fish has relaxed. There is no mention of whether the hook is barbed or barbless so I would imagine that a barbed hook (even micro-barbed) may well remain for some time.

It's always going to be difficult to sum up your whole life's fishing experiences and your knowledge in just a few short sentences, even in one letter. You just hope that the reader sometimes fills in some of the gaps for themselves and remains on your side.
 
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Budgie Burgess

Guest
Maximum pressure 3lb!!!Try it with a spring balance?? obviously Dave hasnt other wise he would not have come up with that.Jeremy dont understand how you can say its the clutch that dictates the maximum pull through a rod!!!? It is the strength of the angler.The average of which with any rod is arond 11lbs.Just go and try it.Psudo science BAH practical experience YES.Whilst DC's letter makes a lot of good points I can not agree with flat braids being kinder to fish's mouths,they cut much worse.Once again forget theories just get out there and do it."Plastic Facts" worry me because as I know they are not true through practical experience I am then left doubting the validity of any other "facts" given.
 
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Jeremy Airey

Guest
Hi Budgie
I think I wrote the clutch was a 'limiting' factor - if you set the clutch to slip at (say) 5 pounds this is the maximum pressure you can apply unless you introduce some extra pressure into the system - eg by (say) manually 'clamping' down on the spool.
I do know what your saying though as I regularly use 10kg of clutch pressure for some of the 'warmer' water species and on fixed spool gear too - the rod has a 'test' curve of about 4 pounds.
My mates who go after catfish tell me that a 10lb clutch setting on a 5 lb test curve rod is pretty standard for them.
Practical experience does rule OK by a long chalk though.
regards
Jeremy
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
First of all the article was most interesting and the comments by Mr Chiltern on braid are those of a man with a great deal of ecperience.

Howver I feel he is a little off track when he says that 12 Big Game breaks at 17 lb.

This is in all event true - dry and unused. However nylon weakens in water and the wet strength is likely to be about 12lbs.

However Big Game is an American sourced line. There they do not talk about breaking strains, they talk about "Test". That means that the line will withstand a pull of 12 lbs. One must be aware of the differences before criticising the line.

Secondly, the notion that a rod can only put a strain on a fish equal to the rod's test curve is utter drivel!

I have often set up a rod with a 1 1/2lb test curve and have been able to put well in excess of 6lbs pull on a spring balance whilst retaining a curve of resilience in hand. One might not be able to do this with a 12 foot fast action poker rod, but you can do it easily with a flexible rod of 9 feet or thereabouts.

In addition when playing fish that are running, you have to add the resistance of the line in the water. This resistance can be significant, especially if a large powerful fish kites at an angle to the line.

Next is the question of setting the clutch. OK set the clutch to start slipping at a certain force. However to maintain the clutch slipping requires less force. Overcoming the initial inertia of the spool takes more force than keeping it turning. To maintain the pressure you often have to drop your fingers on the spool after it starts slipping.
 
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Ron Troversial Clay

Guest
Something I forgot to add is the resistance produced on the line by the rod ring friction caused by a running fish.

Lower the rod to get more pressure on the fish and you will reduce this friction. To counteract this you have to increase your finger pressure on the spool or increase the clutch tension.

It gets a bit complicated doesn't it?

And so it is.
 
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Chris Bishop

Guest
We all play fish differently. I try to get them in as fast as I can as the longer they're on the end, the more chance I'll cock something up and lose them.

I think these figures of how much pressure this rod or that line enables you to apply is pretty subjective, ie Budgie looks a slighly (!) beefier bloke than me, so I assume he can give a fish a bit more stick whatever rod he's got in his hand.

Does any ofus really look at it his way in practice..? Well lads, I may b fortunate enough to hook a doubl or even a 20 today, which may require a dirct pull of 12lbs to stop it, so I'd better use at least 18lbs line llowing for wet BS, tying a trace knot etc..?

Of course we don't. You get attuned to the rods, reels, line etc you use and learn - sometimes through bitter experience - what they can and can't do.

I'm sure this is h same whatever you fish for, the point of braids is while they aren't the magic ingredient, thy're certainly far better for most applications than mono reel lines, because a fish shouldn't break 50 or 60lbs line unless something goes badly wrong or you goof a knot or something.

Interestingly enough, I reckon I broke off on two or three fish a season when I used mono, with braid it's been twice in five years. That alone's reason enough for me, notwithstanding the fact it floats, near-zero stretch, lasts forever etc.
 
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