The carp fishing circus

Gary Knowles · Dec 4, 2003

An interesting point has been raised on a predator website recently and I'd like to court the opinions of you guys on FM.

Basically it started with he capture of the 39lb pike from the fens. A magnificent fish of that there is no doubt, however a few people commented that the cirus was bound to arrive a few days later. The point is this.

It appears that anyone who travels around targeting known pike, tench, bream, perch, roach, etc. is labelled as part of the 'circus' and are treated with distain. Yet anglers who target specific carp, travelling around the country ticking fish off their fish list before moving on, seem to be revered by their fellow carp anglers.

In fact if you read Terry Hearns book 'In pursuit of the largest' anglers like Terry (no critisism intended), seem to have made a career out of adopting this concept of angling.

Why is this do you think, is it because carp are tougher than most species and can handle pressure better, or is it just accepted as OK to target individual fish in this aspect of angling.

This isn't an anti-carp or carp angler thread it's a genuine attempt to try and understand why following known fish in carp angling seems to be not just accepted, but looked up to.

Thought welcomed.

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

i think its just that....they catch everywhere they go! most of the big carp in the country are already "known" so there's not a lot of scope for "pioneering" new lakes - well not within the rules anyway! it's like climbers and mountains, there are those faces you have to climb for credibility. also, being employed by a lot of companies must put a bit of pressure on to perform on the "hard" waters. dont forget in terry's case, he became "famous" AFTER catching a lot of the fish.

and i think you're right about having to protect the pike, as they are relatively fragile.

GrahamM · Dec 4, 2003

What Dave says is right. All the big carp are known fish and chasing them has become an accepted thing to do in carp fishing circles. Now pike, bream, tench, perch, chub, etc, pop up from nowhere sometimes, like the recent 39lb pike.

I think some people confuse the circus with other opportunistic fishing. The circus as most of us see it are that bunch of anglers who hover like vultures, waiting for the news of the latest big one to break so that they can land and devour their prey. Whereas there are other opportunistic anglers who just target waters that hold the biggest fish, wherever they are, who are tarred with the same brush.

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

You tend to find the hearns, lanes, etc are the "oppourtunist", but then whats opportunist about fishing Yately? Wraysbury? they were known long before terry was around. but then its fish like the "black mirror" and the sonning eye fish that set them apart.

The Monk · Dec 4, 2003

I think one of the major criteria with carp, most of the large ones being known of course, is the fact that carp have a greater longevity that many other species. Species like say pike are not as durable to multiple catches and can often stress as a result. I would also suggest that Carp are more easily regonisable.

Jon Moores · Dec 4, 2003

The fact that carp are more recognisable must have something to do with it. For some people it is often a particular fish, that is not the largest in a water, that they are most wanting to catch. I think this view has evolved in carp fishing as repeats of captures became more common and the number of potential mystery fish reduced. The same process seems to be starting with barbel fishing in some parts. The pursuit of individual barbel seems to be becoming more accepted, with anglers targetting named fish and speculation about whether a particular fish will go to 20 pounds. I know this has happened in the past with for instance the Medway fish, but it seems to be more generally accepted now.

Gary Knowles · Dec 4, 2003

I take all this on board but it doesn't really answer the main question, which is.

Why is deemed acceptable, even THE thing to do in carp fishing. Whereas those who do it for other species are subject to derisory comments.

Dave - "i think its just that....they catch everywhere they go!"...I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you elaborate please.

The Monk · Dec 4, 2003

I think the two main reasons are, carp are more durable to being caught a number of times over, while other species it is suggested, suffer from it!

Secondly, it could be down to the fact that large Carp have always been chased in this way and I suppose the growth in carp fishing has just excepted this premise and evolved alone the same lines, I`ve never considered the ethics of it though?

john conway · Dec 4, 2003

It may have something to do with it being an acceptable trait right from the very beginning. Carp fishing was probably the first of the modern cult fish and initially there were probably only a small group of anglers who were equally as well known as the fish they were catching. Maybe Walker and Yates set the scene right from the start when there were no other behaviour traits regarding carp fishing for comparison. Prior to the carp scene you knocked your catch on the head and took it home to eat or as a trophy. May be ticking the big fish of is just an extension to trophy hunting. Like it or not competing is a part of humanity and as long as the fish don’t suffer I’ve no problem with it, it must be better than knocking them on the head and putting them in a glass box.

Gary Knowles · Dec 4, 2003

Monk,

I agree in some ways, they certainly are more durable. But seeing it as acceptable because its always been done I can't grasp.

Let me just say again i'm not trying to suggest what is right or wrong, merely trying to understand why carp anglers who openly follow carp circuit waters in search of big fish are not know as part of the 'circus'...yet people who do exactly the same with other species are...

There are guys on this forum (who I class as freinds) who regulalry poke fun at the 'circus' yet make no secret of the fact they seek to catch known fish (carp). I find the whole thing quite curious !

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

what i was getting at gary is that terry and a few others can apply themselves to pretty much any water, rather than just being a "local hero" - it just happens that they've caught most of the "known fish" from fishing the "circuit" waters. "blackmere" wasnt particularly well known before he caught the fish from there, conningbrook was fished, but not like it is now, same with sonning and a few others. i think some of the "names" have proved you can catch from the "rock hard" waters, so others follow. put them on any water, and they'll catch. thats why theyve got the status they have. terry's also caught some big perch/roach in his time (whilst fishing for them, i hasten to add!). they're good anglers that happen to fish for carp.

Gary Knowles · Dec 4, 2003

I'm not disputing any of what you say Dave. I don't doubt for one minute the angling ability of the top carp lads. And I'm not particulalry pointing the finger at Terry Hearn either, he was just the first example that sprang to mind.

But you could say exactly the same for people like Stef Horak and Phil Smith, yet these two are ridiculed as part of the circus for chasing known fish whereas carp anglers are praised for catching known big fish.

Do you see what I'm getting at ?

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

other side of the coin gary, why is it unacceptable with other species?

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

sorry gary, post no.11 was written about about an hour ago, i forgot to send!

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

why are they ridiculed? jealousy probably. in the same way that southern carp anglers were ridiculed by the northern ones as we "had it easy, loads of water, loadsa money to chuck at things". i think also people are more protective of, say a new drain with a large head of big roach, than somewhere like yately thats been around for ages, and fished by thousands already.

Jon Moores · Dec 4, 2003

I think a part of it is that to some extent with other fish on many waters we can often choose not to spot the fact that we are catching repeats. Carp are so much more recognisable, so everyone who carp fishes at whatever level, knows they are catching known fish, be it a twenty from the local lake or Benson. Most of the time a roach or chub angler does not recognise any of the fish they catch and so are in a position to decry the repeat captures of big chub or roach.

All that said I think most anglers would prefer the unknown, it's just that in carp fishing there are virtually no big unknowns out there (or at least that can be fished above board)

Budgie Burgess · Dec 4, 2003

The comment about Conningbrook made me think about this thread.This water has been fished just as hard for many many years.It only became a "circuit" water once anglers from the "circus" who publisise the water and catchs moved on to it.So to be a member of the "cicus" you must fish the "circuit" waters and they in turn must be fished by the "circus" to become such!!What a load of old bollocks!!!"I personnaly prefer to fish waters that contain big fish rather than chase known big fish" Thats my preference but when you look at it it is surely one and the same!More Bollocks!!I am just as much a hypocrite as others!

FACT-Other than knowing it exists a fish dont become any easier to catch once it has been caught,in fact you could argue the opposite!

FACT-To the angling world a fish's capture reduces in worthyness(?)the more times it has been caught!Daft as you like!

A lot of people simply dont "chase" fish because they cant be bothered! I know that if the truth be known thats why I dont! But how many others out there are the same and just knock the guys who do out of jealousey?

Sorry,Ive not added anything to the origonal question but it got me wondering...

Dave Rothery · Dec 4, 2003

people i used to fish with talked about conningbrook years ago (late 80's). yes it was fished, but not the sort of pressure it gets today. nothing like a 60+ to increase bank pressure! if the circus was just full of glory hunters, surely those who have already had two-tone would still fish it to get the record? (apart from ian brown and a few others who have fished there for years) maybe joe public is the one that creates the circus, following on after the "ring leaders" have gone? a lot of people who write good articles on forums would never get in a mag, because in our eyes they would lack credibility if they only fished day ticket, mid double waters, even though they could be outstanding anglers?

Dave Slater · Dec 4, 2003

Gary,
I don't mind the carp fishing circus. I think they are a different breed to the other circus, the ringmaster, coco etc. They are not quite so blatant.

alan outen · Dec 4, 2003

but surely it dosent just apply to carp fishing, down this way the first cod was reported a few weeks ago, that weekend the local shop sold 2600lug, the weekend before they sold 80, and as for the beech where it was caught, there were so many people there fishing it took the p**s.

The carp fishing circus

Gary Knowles

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Dave Rothery

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GrahamM

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The Monk

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