angling tuition

Im intereseted in doing a bit of Tutoring, im CRB checked, a Scout leader, community leader an angler of over 25years.

seems i can take Cubs, Scouts, my own kids and friends kids out fishing and teach them. I can assist novice anglers on the river our conservation group manage.

however if I/WE want to provide angling activities in school holidays for the local kids and youth, we have to get Qualified.

but for some finding ?300 to ?500 what ever it costs is a lot to ask for.

Also i read a report in an Angling Mag last year, that commented on the fact that a some officials???? or something like that suggested that attending a regulatory organisations training week was not a legal requirment and no garuntee that the Angling coach was suitable as the training focused on child protection rather than angling ability.

can any one set the record straight for me?

whilst i agree that qualified coaches is a great idea, i also dont want to waste time and money on something that isnt required.

I can only speak here for fly fishing.

Although I taught fly casting, fishing techniques and fly tying for over 15 years, successfully too, I am not allowed to do this in UK. I have to pass an examination by the APGAI or some such body to qualify to teach in UK.

You can be the best teacher in the world, yet you will not be allowed to teach in UK.

Even people such as Lefty Kreh and Joan Wulff, two of the best fly fishers in the world would fail the APGAI test.

On the other end of the stick, if you were qualified to APGAI, you would be able to teach fly fishing in SA, USA or any other place for that matter.

In my opinion, the APGAI is a rather nasty clique, and their methods of teaching are archaic. The minute these people meet a really good fly caster, theirs jaws drop in awe, and they have to fail them.

Driving instruction has a similarity in this country.

I hope someone will join this thread and prove that I am wrong.

And to pass that examination, costs an arm and a leg!!

Ashe,
I am a very experienced Angler in all three disciplines,and also experieced in teaching others how to fish,however I recently did a PAA level 2 course in Angling Coaching at Pershore college,Worcestershire,and found it of great benefit,and also I may say very intense,and no pushover.
I would suggest anyone contemplating tutoring or guiding would be well advised to have such a qualification,and reckon this course is infinately superior to the NFA one,and very proffessionaly run.
Its run over seven days,split into two sessions,and incorporates sat and sunday.

The cost is about ?375 I believe,though that figure would need checking.

You would also need to join the PAA,though it is not mandatory,which would cost about ?125,but you will get about ?100 of Diawa tackle thrown in.

It is not just about child protection,there are many other factors,and about three days are spent coaching on a lake and river.

Hope that helps,
Chris.

Could you explain what you mean by "child protection"?

Ashy.....theres loads of bullshit been written about angling courses, Ive been delivering them since 1999, email me direct I'll give you my number and will tell you whats what within 2 mins with no bullshit!

Ron, child protection is a course that anyone can attend if they pay (child protection course).

Chris the PAA course is identical to the NFA course!

A level 2 sea angling course is, in coaching terms, equivalent to a Level 2 game angling, level 2 football course etc!

The people who deliver such courses are all qualified to the same level in theory!

If you do the course throught the Environment Agency it costs about ?375 ish but there is no need to spend ?125 to join the PAA, join the NFA for a tenner, indeed if you go thro the EA bursary scheme you'll get the whole lot for nowt!

I used to teach loads of kids and a few adults up to around 1999 when all this legislation (?) came out and all the talk about child protection. Ray Walton suggested going through the PAA and others have suggested the NFA. I am so confused now I wouldn't know what to do.

In the early 70s I was trained with the Government's Training scheme into "Intructional Techniques". That meant that even if I didn't know how to do something I could still find out, document it and show others. As far as the protection of children is concerned, people are free to investigate me through the CRB, PNC, and even the CIA - they'll find nothing!

I am now being encouraged by the EA to do something so maybe there's a way, otherwise I just can't be bothered.

Eddie,
I think you will find they are not the same course,ask Bruno Broughton or Derek North who prepared it,and level two is under level three ,which the tutors are,and which is available as a separate course.
I have no axe to grind as to which is better,as I got sponsored to do it,but I do coach children with the EA in the summer,and have witnessed NFA coaches at work.Both me and my collegues have been seriously unimpressed with the standard of competance provided on those occasions.

As with all coaching,in any sport,having a qualification or badge wont make you a good coach,its still down to the man or women providing the coaching to impart the knowledge and enthusiasmn needed to inspire others,however,I am only passing on information as per the original request by Ashe,and my own experiences.

From a personal perspective, as one who takes people individually as a guide,I found it of great benefit regarding liability issues and risk assessment,health and safety,and many other factors,and now feel much happier from a personal standing ,as to the service I can provide,and the areas of potential conflict.

The facts remain that there are unregulated people in fishing coaching and guiding who have no comprehension of such issues,and as such could pay a heavy price,if clients pursued a personal claim against them,if something went wrong,or an issue of sexual nature was claimed .

I was very grateful to be sponsored to do the course and personally found it of great benefit,others may have differant opinions as to the merits of respective organisations,or courses,or tutors,these are just my own personal experiences and thoughts,no bias intended.
The Pons.

Cheers Chris

I have no axe to grind either mate

The qualification I refer to is a Level 2 Certificate in Coaching Angling, the awarding body is 1st for Sport Qualifications it is THE award delivered by the NFA, NFSA, and the Salmon and Trout Association aka (Joint Angling Governing Bodies) or JAGB.

This course has been ratified by QCA. The resources document comes in a white folder with green writing on the front. Yes there is a Level 3 also (like football, swimming etc) and this should eventually go up to level 5 (international standard coach) but I don?t think the course is that advanced yet.

There is differing technical content between the 3 disciplines but they are the SAME Level of qualification whatever course you do, this course is delivered through different facilitators PAA, EA, NFA etc, but it is the same qualification!

The award was originally set up by Mick Owen, amongst others, and was set up to provide unity throughout the angling coaching world, and to bring angling coaching on to a higher plain and level par with other sports like football and basketball (Mick Owens area) in order to attract more funding from the likes of Sport England.

I agree with you totally regarding some of the aspects of coaching that are not obvious, i.e. risk assessments, health and safety etc but with regards an accusation it can be avoided for the mainstay of coaches by following the Angling Coaches Code of Conduct (appendix B of the candidate pack). Point 8 advises to coach with a second adult in sight!

As an aside Chris, if you have witnessed poor practice, from any coach regardless of their badge please report it, this is the only way to improve standards.

Keep up the good work!

EC

Thanks Eddie,
Very enlightening and thankyou for your input and undoubted knowledge,I am wiser for it.
Regards,
Chris.

Thanks Chris and Eddie. Very enlightening.

cheers lads for all of that.

I will look into all options now.

Child protection & Health & safety i have covered through registered organisations. my first aid renewal is on 28th Feb.

I deal with CP & H&S every day of the week.

Those who are interested in giving some tuition might like to contact this organisation as they provide a framework for formally giving tuition of all types. I know they have been involved in facilitating evening courses in fly-fishing and they will cover anything there is a demand for. For a fee of course taken from the payments from the organising college or whoever.

http://www.protocol-professional.co.uk/

With 25 years of angling experience, shouldn't you be asking what makes some other "angler" qualified to teach you.

My old mate Geoff Bucknall was once asked if he'd like to join APGAI, or something similar, and asked what was involved. He was told he'd have to pass some test or other. He enquired who the testers would be and was told certain names, almost all of whom he had tought fishing or fly tying techniques. He declined to join but that did not stop him teaching.

I am not saying that you wouldn't learn yourself by undertaking some training, but angling is a very personal thing and everyone develops their own style.

Ron,

You don't have to join APGAI or any such organisation to teach. If you are any good, your reputation will get you plenty of customers.

Ashy....just make sure you check that your insurance covers you when you are out with the cubs/scouts, it may well cover you whilst you are on a bonafide event, but possibly not, say for example, if you were just wandering along the canal and happened to help a kid who was struggling!

When I was coaching for the NFA we had to book the event in, by contacting HQ prior to coaching, as such if you just turned up somewhere and started coaching ad hoc we would not have been insured (as I understand). Although this can be alleviated if you become a registered coach and take out personal insurance with someone like Sportscoach UK!

Colin with regards to adults I can't say I disagree with you, most of my work was done with juniors at entry level, as such many didnt know a fish from a chip, and definitely had not developed any style at all really.

Like you I have been fishing since the late 70's I personally wouldnt have any problems listening or being coached by someone who was more experienced than me in a paricular branch of the sport.

Ashe,who exactly told you that you have to be a qualified instructor?

Hi guys,
It's a shame there is so much misinformation out there about the 'requirements' for people to get qualified in order to help out or simply take a few kids fishing. Hopefully Ashe knows the score now, Eddie will help if you need more info.

I am interested in Chris Ponsford's comments about standards in coaching. Unfortunately, the JAGB Level 2 qualification is the only benchmark at the moment. It is quite broad and shallow in content, and for people like me, who are paying for coaches to provide a service, there is a huge variety of difference in the experience, knowledge and style of coaches out there.
This is the nature of the beast though, angling is such a varied sport, that I dont think it would be possible for a coaching structure to 'fit' as easily as it does in sports like football and tennis, where the sports are generally always played under the same conditions and to the same rules. Imagine how thick a coaching manual would be to include all aspects of the sport - it would be like the Encylopedia Brittanica!
Yeah, some coaches are excellent in their chosen field, others are better at working with beginners and only scratch the surface - that's me and you Eddie ;-) It's horses for courses.
For me though, it would be useful if there were a bunch of 'bolt-on' qualifications or standards that coaches could work to that prove they have the skills to organise large events, specialise in certain skills, coach at international level, etc etc,.. so each coach could have their own verifiable CV - and not just the 'well i've been fishing for 25 years so i must be great at it'..

This is all tosh! all that is required is knowledge and the ability to impart that knowledge! I have met some very good coachs/instructors that do not have any formal qualifications at all.I have met some who have PAA etc and not only are they very limited in their angling knowledge but piss poor in their teachind ability as well.In my mind another example of a good idea being bastardised by certain people for their own personel advancement.
As a father myself I understand the need for "chid protecion" but is a course needed to tell you not to abuse kids? and CR checks? surely the answer is commonsense and not allowing kids to be in a vunerable situation? Or is it just another excuse to be given by those who want to be in control to trengthen their position?