Zander Scandle

Simon Firth · Feb 24, 2004

If this story is true, the anti-angling lobby are going to have an utter field day! While it MAY be argued that the spread of Zander has been detrimental to silver fish populations, there must be far better ways of controlling Zander numbers than long lineing. The fact that the angler in question was a former editor of the angling press AND he was taking some for the table, merely makes the matter worse.

At a time when all anglers should be doing their upmost to promote a positive public image of the sport, some individuals (who ought to know far better), simply undermine the efforts of others.

Ron Troversial Clay · Feb 24, 2004

Two ways of looking at this one.

First of all Simon I think if you do some research, the Anti Angling Lobby have nothing against the capture of fish to eat, nor the way in which they are caught.

The Anti-Anglers are certainly not against trawling, long lining, or even explosives for that matter. What they ARE against is the use of fish for pleasure, ie: catching them and putting them back!!

This is what coarse anglers do all the time. And in addition we kill a few of what we catch to enjoy the pleasure of eating them. As a keen all rounder I do this often; and here I am talking about trout and the odd grayling.

I must also confess that I have killed odd zander, pike, eels and perch in the past.

I know Peter Collins from way back. He was brought up as a traditional fensman. He also was a match angler and if there are two species match anglers truly despise in England, it is zander and pike. I live in an area where anglers kill as many pike as possible. In fact if you talk about the latest big pike you have caught amongst the majority of anglers in my area and mention that you returned it, you will either be thought totally mad, or are likely to get brought up in front of the local club that has the fishing rights and expelled.

Peter Collins used set lining techniques. I have seen far more aggressive methods used on local waters in my area.

And Simon you will never change these people.

Wolfman Woody · Feb 24, 2004

Aren't these what the EA refer to as "Fixed Engines" or soemthing?

I agree with Ron here, though, since the guy was not "Angling" as such, but rather he was "fishing". Still illegal, but the anti-angling brigade would be on a hiding to nothing to take this one up.

However, LOOK at this I found whilst trawling around for information -

"The prohibition of the use of set lines, which was first enacted in the Fisheries (Scotland) Act 1860, was retained by the 1951 Act. Common practices in angling for coarse fish include 'ledgering', where a bait or baits are fished using a weighted line, the rod being set on a rod rest. It can be usual for coarse anglers to set several lines when fishing for coarse fish. The courts have determined that laying down a rod and leaving it supported on a rock or stone constitutes fishing with a set line. This would apply equally to the use of a rod rest. Thus, anyone who fishes for coarse fish in Scotland using accepted methods for that branch of the sport runs the risk of being charged with fishing illegally."

This was on http://www.scotland.gov.uk/about/ERADRA/FFAME/00017380/fishingmethods.aspx

Just watch it if you use a rod rest in Scotland. Probably a Liberal policy.

Tim Ridge · Feb 24, 2004

Ron is right about this sort of thing being commonplace in the S.Yorks area but that is all the more reason to crackdown, bloody hard. You are not telling me a bloke with Collin's background is ignorant to the facts.

Ron Troversial Clay · Feb 25, 2004

I remember having a long discussion with Peter Stone on what constitutes "Set Lining"

We came to the conclusion that modern carp fishing, ie: multiple rods, bolt rigs, pods and buzzers as well as going to sleep with the rods out, was in actual fact set lining and illegal in many parts of Britain.

It's a sobering thought isn't it?

Peter Collins is certainly not ignorant of the law, but his hatred for zander is total, make no mistake.

I guess that' why he did it.

Phil Hackett 2 · Feb 25, 2004

The guys a moron and if found guilty of this act, he should have his membership of any club he belongs to withdrawn for life and his rod license suspended for 2 years.

Angling needs plonkers like this, like it needs a hole in the head. Better still, a public beheading at the next NFA conference would I suggest solve the problem with one swift stroke.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phil Hackett 2 · Feb 25, 2004

Ron you're old enough to remember this plonker’s writing in Angling Magazine many years ago. His hatred is not just zander, it is all predators. His solution to any perceived problem (a figment of his own imagination in most cases) was total eradication of those predators.

Ron Troversial Clay · Feb 25, 2004

You're right Phil. He believed that all pike, perch, zander and eels should be killed.

He didn't even like trout.

But to be quite honest this is typical of many who have been brought up by the match angling route.

Spend a half hour in some of my local shops and you will hear it.

The Dog · Feb 25, 2004

I was far from impressed by the comments of the EA. If he had been caught fishing without a license they would have thrown the book at him.

Deecy · Feb 25, 2004

The decision not to prosecute will be under the banner ' not in the public interest'this amongst other things covers silly old sods like this bloke.In essence the negative impact of prosecution. Papers like the Daily Mail will call him a 'poor defenceless old man'.The EA probably rightly will deem the negative publicity amongst the (non angling)public at large more amaging than the positive press it would receive in the angling press.Much the same as the little old lady who refuses to pay her Council tax.Despite what is written in the press i'll wager she won't be going to prison.

Baz · Feb 25, 2004

Ron,
If a person going to sleep with his rods out could be classed as set lining, then why did the E.A. seemingly back down a couple of years ago over the carp lads sleeping while fishing? It's just something I have never been able to work out. Or did they simply back down through pressure?

Ron Troversial Clay · Feb 26, 2004

A good one Baz.

Carp fishing in the 60s and 70s developed into a cult. The Monk is more qualified than me to comment on this. Great admiration was given to carp anglers who spent vast numbers of rod hours in search of carp.

This, I think, is a result of an attitude that may have developed even before the Carp Catchers Club came into existance.

Walker quoted Kipling in his book "Still Water Angling"

"We wait, I am old, yet I still find that waiting is the hardest work of all."

In other words, the long waiting was somehow glorified. And because of this, it was thought that a carp angler who had spent a tremendous number of hours after a fish was a great angler. Little was thought of the angler who used his kop and caught by dint of low cunning and guile a big fish in a session lasting a couple of hours. It was not done, it was likened to an anglers catching a a trout on a worm instead of a fly.

In addition to this, was the carp angler's love of camping. The bivvying up is part of the scene. The camaraderie, the get together in the evening, the beer and curry session and then the crashing out in the bivvy, only to be awakening in the middle of the night by the frantic tones of a buzzer.

All these things resulted in what is carp angling today and with it, the vast amount of tackle that has become part of a huge industry.

Baz · Feb 26, 2004

I think things have changed with the carp lads. Years ago I hate to say it but it was more or less drummed into people that the carp lads are a bad lot. But even then I found that most carp lads were very helpfull and less troublesome than the every day pleasure angler who fishes for anything. That's just in my expierience. For instance if there was someone night fishing where it wasn't allowed it could be gauranteed that it would be a pleasure angler, yet the first thing out of peoples mouths was, were they bloody carpers? I'm not saying they don't break rules, it's just that they are a lot more carefull and don't leave tell tale signs like starlight packets lying about, and generally leave a place as they find it. Where as the pleasure angler couldn't give a toss, not all of them, but these kind of anglers cause most problems in my area.

Ron Troversial Clay · Feb 27, 2004

The vast majority of carp anglers I have ever met have been really good people, make no mistake. In fact I spent several years of my life fishing for nothing else.

On top of that I was one of the first members of The British Carp Study Group.

However in time I found it all too easy, and I was missing the manipulative skills involved in other types of fishing.

My most enjoyable carp fishing was with people like Tag Barnes and Steve Crawshaw in the 60s. There were few waters in Yorkshire holding carp in those days and those that did have them, were difficult to get on.

However when I did get on them, it was carp fishing in the classic style.

What I enjoyed most of all was margin fishing using bread crust. You put out a few crusts in the margins and waited as the carp came cruising, always in a clockwise direction. Your heart nearly stopped as a leviathan eventually sucked in your crust, and when everything went right, you where hooked into a fish that shot off at tremendous speed and bent your 10 feet of split cane Mk IV into a lovely arc.

And it wasn't all that big, maybe 10 pounds if you were lucky, most times less.

I've caught some very big carp since in my life and somehow the magic of this species has been lost to me.

Today, they don't fight all that hard for some reason, and they have bloody great guts which puts me off totally.

Maybe, no - surely, I am, a traditionalist old fart.

Tim Ridge · Feb 27, 2004

No Ron, I'm certainly not a traditionalist but I can see exactly where you're comming from.
Because of what's been said in one particular angling newspaper people tend to think of me as a bit of a specialist at 'bore'em out tactics'. Nothing could be further from the truth. I like nothing better than to get em on more active methods. I stop short at the point of suggesting this type of aproach is more skillfull because it isn't, You still have to put a lot of effort into watercraft and spend a lot of time watching the fish to get the best results possible but I have to admit I do enjoy the active aproach more.

ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one) · Feb 27, 2004

Before the popularity of carp --we used to spend many long hours/days/nights fishing for bream on the Cheshire Meres without bivvies (they weren't even thought of in those early days) --we used to use a couple of umbrellas and a plastic sheet
It was with the advent of carp fishing that bivvies and proper bed chairs (we used sunlounger type chairs)came into being.
In those days indicators were dough bobbins (you had to watch out for rats nibbling at them )lit by a nightlight in a red painted jam jar or a bicycle lamp.
If you could afford them, Heron Bite Indicators were the only audible system available--on windy nights or if there was any drift or undertow you would be up all night adjusting them!!
Oh for the good old days ........

Les Clark · Feb 27, 2004

Ed,We used to use a umbrella with a tarpallen shaped bivvie over the top,and if it rained it would weigh a ton,sunlounger bed`s that the rachet would slip or one or more of the spring`s would fall off,Heron`s,I found not to bad,but long time ago,rose tinted glasse`s?

Les Clark · Feb 28, 2004

I think that this chap hopefully is a one off,and maybe a sandwhich short of a picknick and all the hue and cry won`t do anybody any favour`s and best veiwed at a distant`s.... at the moment.

Tim Ridge · Feb 28, 2004

That's the think Les, he isn't. Granted few partake in such mass slaughter but it is quite common for any pike caught in certain Match dominated area's of the country, to be left to gasp away their final moments. Several clubs and organisation positively encourage it. Of course they wouldn't openly come out and say so. However, this attitude is if anything a majority one in these area's.

Ron Troversial Clay · Feb 28, 2004

Neville Ficking called the area beween Sheffield, Doncaster and Lincoln, the "Killing Triangle". There is a lot of truth regarding his statement.

The vast majority of anglers in this area are matchmen, who don't believe that pike should be allowed to exist.

Some years ago I cought a small pike of about 8 pounds from the South Yorks Navigation Canal on a dead bait.

As I put it back, two anglers along the bank went beserk. I had to get out of there quickly, or they might have attacked me.

Personally, I would like to see Richard Lee have the guts to investigate the hatred that anglers have in this area for pike. It would make a darned good story and would bring out the truth.

Zander Scandle

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