Unlicensed Anglers

Wolfman Woody · Apr 16, 2004

This is a disgraceful situation and for once it's not the fault of the EA or their bailifs, it's the Courts.

If fines are to be a deterant then they should be way in excess of what is presently being levied. The cheats know that they are unlikely to get caught providing they stay away from targeted areas. But when they do "?119" - it's nothing compared to the ?2500 they could be fined.

Make it at least ?500 plus costs and I'll believe we have something like justice in our Courts.

Peter Jacobs · Apr 16, 2004

Jeff,

I do agree that the fine should be far greater. In fact I would love to see a fine levied equal to say 3 months gross salary for license dodgers.
(like they do in some parts of Norway for speeding)

What I find even more disgraceful is that only an average of <15 unlicensed anglers per day were caught.
(this based on say 270 fishing days per year)

When you think about it that is <15 people caught NATIONWIDE !

How many EA Bailiffs are there for crying out aloud?

Dave Slater · Apr 16, 2004

I agree with both of you. I was amazed to see how low the fines have been. I always buy my licence before 1st April but a simple calculation of what the average fine is divided by the likelihood of being asked for the licence would mean that, on average, it would work out cheaper not to buy a licence. Either waters should be bailiffed more often or the fines should be increased greatly. Personally I would prefer both, the fine probably being somewhere between the ?500 Jeff mentions and the 3 months salary Peter mentions.

Wolfman Woody · Apr 16, 2004

Peter, I know that in Thames region Southern area, they have 3 full time bailiffs and I think two of the fishery officers now have warrants, but they spend their time looking after our fisheries. It's a problem catching the buggers who don't but licences, but that's not the problem that's annoying me. It when they get them to Court and the beak says smack on the wrist and ?68 + costs.

They're having a laugh.

However, this year the bailiffs could be riding in the Waterways' boats to cover more ground on the river.

Peter Jacobs · Apr 16, 2004

Jeff,

The dilemma must be that the more they catch the longer it will take to get them into a court, and then you have the problem of different fines from different magistrates.

A set fine would alleviate one of the problems, but it is obviously a far too logical solution (?)

I still have a problem with the statistics though, of less than 15 dodgers caught daily during the river season. This figure is even less if you divide by 12 months to account for the misadventure (IMHO) of all year round fisheries.

As I have said before, I fish on average around 40/50 days a year and I have NEVER even seen an EA bailiff let alone been asked to show my license.

Laurie Harper · Apr 16, 2004

Agree with all the foregoing about increasing the size of fines. I think part of the problem may be that it's not a cost-effective use of resources for the EA to devote many of their people to checking licences. I should imagine that the amount of extra revenue it would bring in would not justify the cost of hiring extra or transferring existing staff away from other duties. Like all publicly-funded organisations, the EA is not exactly awash with spare cash. I was heartened to have my licence checked three times last season. Previously, I had gone for years without seeing a bailiff. However, I should imagine the system will carry on being largely dependant on our honesty. How many people want to pay more taxes so we can have better schools, hospitals, more bailiffs, etc? It's a perennial problem.

Wolfman Woody · Apr 16, 2004

Peter - I do admit that 15 dodgers per day seems small, but one bailiff told me once that he can go days without catching a dodger. That might be because they stay away from the places he targets, I don't know.

What I am told at our regular meetings is - the EA don't want to catch dodgers, they don't want to take them to court when they do catch them - because they don't get any revenue from the fine itself and the costs are a paltry sum that hardly pay for the prosecution. That has to be addressed!

What they would prefer is by threatening to catch dodgers, the dodgers will buy a licence and be legal. That way the EA get their money. And think about it - wouldn't it be nice if no angler was caught without a licence simpley because we all had one?

Baz · Apr 16, 2004

Monkey,
Have you seen the spring edition of the Catch magazine? (E.A.) They seem to do quite well out of awards made by the courts. I found the mag a decent read this time rather than being boring. It’s worth having a look at.

mel Crighton · Apr 16, 2004

Just done some math if each licence dodger was fined the maximum fine of 2500 x EA estimate of 3500 summons equates to 8,750,000 now how many bailiffs could that pay for let alone inprovements to our rivers and sport now who's the loser?

Wolfman Woody · Apr 16, 2004

'Catch' ? I have a copy of Reel Life which should be available to all licence holders. Is it on Page 4?

If it is the same its says "...the Courts awarded costs of ?29,186..."

You have to remember that is to pay for the bailiff turning up in court and the brief's fees. Often it costs far more for their wages than they get awarded in costs. If there's a postponement or they have to go back another day that's extra costs for the EA but not to the dodger.

You should see their faces when my PC mate flashes his warrant card and asks to see their licence. What a relief for them when he just tells them off and advise them to get one. You can almost smell their nappies.

John Lock · Apr 18, 2004

I've been fishing since 1972. I have always held a valid rod licence but, in all that time I have never been asked, by anyone, to produce it. I could have saved myself ?736 (32 x ?23) in todays terms by not bothering to buy a licence. A drastic re-think is needed. All bailiffs, commercial or otherwise, should be required by law to check that an angler has a valid licence before selling him a day ticket. Tackle shops too should ask to see a licence when selling a rod. It's not rocket science. Millions of anglers fishing thousands of miles of waters cannot be seriously policed by a few bailiffs. Until the chances of getting caught are greatly increased, together with the punishments imposed by the courts, it will still pay dodgers to continue being dodgers - especially those that use commercial waters where they know they are not likely to be asked to show a rod licence.

mel Crighton · Apr 18, 2004

never been ask for me fishing licence ,walked outside me house a few months back when selling me shotgun stopped in me tracks by a police patrol who demanded to know everything by the kitchen sink ......
you want the same to happen each time you take your rods out ......mmmmmmmmm interesting....

Baz · Apr 18, 2004

The problem is that some comercials and other fisheries and even some clubs take the attitude, why should we check for E.A. licences it's not our job and why should we do it for them. This is one point that does need sorting out.

John Hepworth · Apr 20, 2004

My wife is going through the selection process to become a magistrate. If successful she has been instructed (by me) to impose the heaviest possible sentences on all who come up before her on any angling related charges.

During the times she has attended court sessions she did say that solicitors not having prepared sufficiently and cases having to be adjourned waste an awful amount of time is wated, and in the case of E/A officials, their time also.

On just one day last week a club bailiff came across no fewer than eight anglers fishing a club water without a valid licence.
As from next year, if I am still membership secretary, no angler will be given membership without providing a copy of their E/A licence.

Baz · Apr 20, 2004

Good John,
We are all in the same boat. And what you are proposing to do is all it takes.

Dave Slater · Apr 20, 2004

I think you should buy your wife a black hanging cap and a cat of nine tails John. These should be used when dealing with angling related charges, including walking on new carpets wearing muddy boots

)

Doug Butler · Apr 20, 2004

Comercials should ask to see a E.A. licence befor selling a day tickit, The clubs should ask to see it befor renewing club membership, That is the only to go to stamp it out as most fishermen fish comercial, or are club members.

John Hepworth · Apr 20, 2004

Dave, She already has them in wating for Dave G.

John Hepworth · Apr 20, 2004

I only hope she does get selected, at least it will get her out of my hair all bloody day. Even though I do not need to work every hour God sends these days, my wife still thinks I should be beating my self with a big stick the whole time.

mel Crighton · Apr 20, 2004

just had a whisper from a fellow angler that his club are discussing licencing and membership tonight let you know outcome.....

Unlicensed Anglers

Wolfman Woody

Guest

Peter Jacobs

Moderator

Dave Slater

Guest

Wolfman Woody

Guest

Peter Jacobs

Moderator

Laurie Harper

Guest

Wolfman Woody

Guest

Baz

Banned

mel Crighton

Guest

Wolfman Woody

Guest

John Lock

Guest

mel Crighton

Guest

Baz

Banned

John Hepworth

Guest

Baz

Banned

Dave Slater

Guest

Doug Butler

New member

John Hepworth

Guest

John Hepworth

Guest

mel Crighton

Guest