Carp on a whip

[Adam de Gurdon]

As my fly fishing is on hold I have re-started coarse fishing. A visit to Claygate Lakes in Kent has proved interesting. I have used a 4m whip with an eyed tip to which I have knotted 18 inches of 10-14 elastic!. Usually I catch F1 hybrids up to 3lbs on a 12 hook with cheese. A couple of weeks ago I tried floating crust. First off I got broken up and then in quick succession I landed my first double figure carp followed by another albeit a pound smaller and then a couple of five pounders. . All on size 10 short shank. A few days ago I tried again but still had trouble hooking a fish as I was using size 12 so I switched to a much larger hook and landed 2x5lbs and 2x4 lbs . Luckily I had my digital scales with me. Pathetic hooking rate was about 1 in 20 takes. Hooks barbless of course. Floating crust on this small water seems to be the high summer favourite for me. My only concern is that I have to play the fish for a bit longer than I would like but the owner said the F1s are pretty resilient. Anyone got any recommendations for a 4/5m whip or pole which has a bit more whoomph to handle the bigger fish please? The water is really like a canal rather than a lake so the shorter rod is much more suitable. Thanks.

 

[markcw]

I would get a decent margin pole , Depending on your budget , there are some good ones out there .

 

[john step]

You need not spend a fortune on a margin pole with a high rated elastic if thats how you want to fish. Make sure the tackle is up to the job. Its not right fishing understrength and leaving hooks in fish. Bad in fact.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

By deinition a "whip" is not elasticated and they are designed for catching small(er) fish at speed and swinging to hand.

Even so, I've caught and landed tench, ide and bream to 4 pounds plus on a short whip, although for anything bigger it is safer, and better fishing, to use a top 3 or 4 from a pole that is elasticated in line with the expected size of the fish to be caught.

Margin poles are better designed for closer in fishing for larger species as they have a thicker wall cross section than any whip I've ever come across.

On some longer whips (6m upwards) we used to use a power gum shock chord inside the tip secion for those European and Scandinavan matches where fish of 1 to 2 kilos needed to be caught at speed and netted safely. However, these were more of a specialist whip than the average ones you might found in a uk tackle shop.

 

[mikench]

Your fly rod would be just as inappropriate as a whip for the type of fishing you are doing. Get a proper margin pole.

 

[markcw]

Try and source a 2nd Shimano Beastmaster margin extreme .
They are aroun 4 metres long, very slim ,and will more or less handle anything you hook. When new they were less than £50, but you can now end up paying that for one ,but they are worth it .Or try and source an original Daiwa yank n bank, These are 10 metre ,come with spare topkits ,very slim and strong ,can also be used as a silver fish pole .I use mine on narrow canals when I don't take my 16 metre pole . It's a brilliant pole , you should be able to pick one up for around £125 . As with any second hand pole, check for drinks on the ends of sections, or repairs . If see any of those ,walk away . Also if buy new ,check every section for cracks , it has been known for sections to get damaged in transit to the shop.
A Middy Skok Stik is another good one . They are still available and are around £130, again this is 4 metre, and will handle anything you hook .
I have both,but use mainly for hit n hold swims .
A good longer one is the Matrix MTX ,this is 8.5 metres and comes with 3'spare topkits pre bushed and fitted with side rollers . Retail at less than £300.
I have one ,the kits have Drennan yellow bungee in for open water, and solid 14 and solid 16 in for normal margin work . All are run through the side puller system. This allows you to control the run of the fish .
I have all of the above and can highly recommend them .
A PI edge monster is another option. Again longer length and spare kits and cheaper than the Matrix .
Personally I would go with a longer pole ,this will give you more options on length, and if you hit a decent fish you are able to add extra sections on .
As for what you are using . Cut the metal ring off and fit a stonfo connector, and use it for silver fish work .

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

I would get a decent margin pole , Depending on your budget , there are some good ones out there .

Thanks for this. I have now sourced a pole or two which seem right for length and strength. Fox Matrix may be the one of choice at offer price but some very good suggestions in posts. Thanks again, Adam

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

You need not spend a fortune on a margin pole with a high rated elastic if thats how you want to fish. Make sure the tackle is up to the job. Its not right fishing understrength and leaving hooks in fish. Bad in fact.

Absolutely right - didn't realise decent size carp in this really narrow water. Will now source a margin pole thanks to all your excellent posts. Adam

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

By deinition a "whip" is not elasticated and they are designed for catching small(er) fish at speed and swinging to hand.

Even so, I've caught and landed tench, ide and bream to 4 pounds plus on a short whip, although for anything bigger it is safer, and better fishing, to use a top 3 or 4 from a pole that is elasticated in line with the expected size of the fish to be caught.

Margin poles are better designed for closer in fishing for larger species as they have a thicker wall cross section than any whip I've ever come across.

On some longer whips (6m upwards) we used to use a power gum shock chord inside the tip secion for those European and Scandinavan matches where fish of 1 to 2 kilos needed to be caught at speed and netted safely. However, these were more of a specialist whip than the average ones you might found in a uk tackle shop.

I did figure I was skating on thin ice with the whip - maybe I should have used my fly rod (see another post). Will do as suggested as my birthday is coming up so maybe my family can club together. Thanks Adam

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

Your fly rod would be just as inappropriate as a whip for the type of fishing you are doing. Get a proper margin pole.

Will do as per all excellent posts. Thank you . Adam

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

Try and source a 2nd Shimano Beastmaster margin extreme .
They are aroun 4 metres long, very slim ,and will more or less handle anything you hook. When new they were less than £50, but you can now end up paying that for one ,but they are worth it .Or try and source an original Daiwa yank n bank, These are 10 metre ,come with spare topkits ,very slim and strong ,can also be used as a silver fish pole .I use mine on narrow canals when I don't take my 16 metre pole . It's a brilliant pole , you should be able to pick one up for around £125 . As with any second hand pole, check for drinks on the ends of sections, or repairs . If see any of those ,walk away . Also if buy new ,check every section for cracks , it has been known for sections to get damaged in transit to the shop.
A Middy Skok Stik is another good one . They are still available and are around £130, again this is 4 metre, and will handle anything you hook .
I have both,but use mainly for hit n hold swims .
A good longer one is the Matrix MTX ,this is 8.5 metres and comes with 3'spare topkits pre bushed and fitted with side rollers . Retail at less than £300.
I have one ,the kits have Drennan yellow bungee in for open water, and solid 14 and solid 16 in for normal margin work . All are run through the side puller system. This allows you to control the run of the fish .
I have all of the above and can highly recommend them .
A PI edge monster is another option. Again longer length and spare kits and cheaper than the Matrix .
Personally I would go with a longer pole ,this will give you more options on length, and if you hit a decent fish you are able to add extra sections on .
As for what you are using . Cut the metal ring off and fit a stonfo connector, and use it for silver fish work .

Thanks for this comprehensive reply. 5m is really maximum length on this very narrow water to maintain any sense of proportion for me. PowerHold or the Matrix at offer price seem to be of interest due to length but depends on family deciding budget. Won't have a rant about inflation blah, blah but I think I shall have to stick to coarse fishing as fly fishing is now so expensive especially taking into account the travelling as well. I'll stick to silverfish with my (wonderful) whip from now on. Thanks to all who have had the courtesy to offer sound advice. Adam

 

[markcw]

John Wilson R.I.P did a programme for tv on catching carp using floating bait and a fly rod . He said the action of the fly rod was better than using a carp rod .or words to that effect .

 

[markcw]

Thanks for this comprehensive reply. 5m is really maximum length on this very narrow water to maintain any sense of proportion for me. PowerHold or the Matrix at offer price seem to be of interest due to length but depends on family deciding budget. Won't have a rant about inflation blah, blah but I think I shall have to stick to coarse fishing as fly fishing is now so expensive especially taking into account the travelling as well. I'll stick to silverfish with my (wonderful) whip from now on. Thanks to all who have had the courtesy to offer sound advice. Adam

If you get one of say 8metres ,you can still use it at 5 metres obviously to the far side , But you can use it at full length along the nearside margin .
Make sure you can get spares , and the pole comes with at least one spare topkit .and don't forget to factor in , pole rigs etc . Like I said personally I would go for the longer version due to getting more options on use .
Good luck with whatever you choose and don't be afraid to ask any questions. , there are plenty on here who can advise you .

 

[Keith M]

John Wilson R.I.P did a programme for tv on catching carp using floating bait and a fly rod . He said the action of the fly rod was better than using a carp rod .or words to that effect .

That’s the reason I bought a 7-weight fly rod and fly reel after seeing a video of John Wilson catching Carp on his fly rod from his lake many years ago; using chum mixers instead of a fly I think. It looked like great fun; however although I still have all my fly tackle; including a box of flies; I never did get around to trying it.
Maybe one day I might give it a go.

Keith

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

John Wilson R.I.P did a programme for tv on catching carp using floating bait and a fly rod . He said the action of the fly rod was better than using a carp rod .or words to that effect .

Very interesting. I am quite a fan of John Wilson and have some of his DVDs. I like the way he kisses a big carp! His book - something like A Fisherman's Diary is the only book I ever finished and then started again straight away. I shall try my fly rod on my next visit. Many thanks for your message. Adam

 

[john step]

Very interesting. I am quite a fan of John Wilson and have some of his DVDs. I like the way he kisses a big carp! His book - something like A Fisherman's Diary is the only book I ever finished and then started again straight away. I shall try my fly rod on my next visit. Many thanks for your message. Adam

I have used Nash Zig Bugs on a fly rod for carp. Its a fun way to fish in those heavily stocked waters. The water primed with dog biscuits first to get them going. I think any buoyant fly would work seeing how they come up and mouth a control float at times.

 

[Adam de Gurdon]

I'll have a look at those bugs. With a two dogs I have plenty of biscuits! I started using cheese on a 12 hook float rig before the weather warmed up a lot but that seemed only to attract smaller hybrids up to 3lbs. With the advent of floating crust things just got bigger! It seems that there is a load of good experience on fishingmagic and I am really very grateful for all the helpful advice I have received. Many thanks Adam