Fishing Magic - your thoughts

Kirsty Hewitt

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Hi all,

Following on from yesterday's announcement about John Bailey joining the team to write for Fishing Magic, we would be really interested to hear your views about the future direction of the site.
We know the loss of Angler's Mail leaves a gap for many people, and we are wondering how we can help to fill that gap.
What did you particularly like about Angler's Mail? How would you like to see Fishing Magic develop? Is there anyone you would particularly like to see on the site?
Please respond here or send me a PM if you prefer. Thanks!

Kirsty
 

mikench

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Hi Kirsty, it will not have gone unnoticed on the threads that AM and AT were in decline from a popularity perspective with similar issues. AT was the worst at product placement and endorsement to the point of making the reviews rather meaningless. I never read a scathing review of any piece of Tackle . Articles were littered with Guru this, Daiwa that and Drennan the other. I assume JB is to be paid to produce articles or maybe not, but either way, he is unlikely to be inhibited in producing the odd review ( good, bad or indifferent) of rods and reels old and new, his take on methods, floats baits and other bits and pieces.

I much preferred AM and it's range of writers such as JB, Steve Collet, Andy Little and good old Matt Hayes. They seemed more likeable somehow. None of them, I believe, bar Matt Hayes sells Tackle under his own name so is that little bit more independent.

No journal is ever going to please everybody all of the time but JB with his wealth of experience could revisit tips, venues and methods and give an honest and up to date assessment on them.

By the way I have nothing against any of the manufacturers and am doing my very best to acquire rods and reels , old and new, from them all. Most Tackle is of good quality today but is much of a muchness with rivals.

I would be happy to read any of his old articles from the past if copyright problems don't prevent this. Obviously there must have been good reasons for the demise of AM so there seems little point in perpetuating a tired and unpopular format here. I'm sure he will have his own ideas and i for one will read his input with interest and an open mind. Good luck on all fronts.
 
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Keith M

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A few years ago our previous editor Graham did a group test about a selection of Barbel rods which I found good and not confined to any particular manufacturer; with an editors choice of the rods on test and why it was his choice.

As long as this type of article was not written by someone who was sponsored and tied to any particular make of rod then this type of article can be extremely useful, especially at this time of year with Christmas around the corner, and it doesn’t have to be rods only either.

It could also be split into a different price range ie. under and over a certain price level.

Keith
 
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Peter Jacobs

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Personally i gave up on most of the angling press some years ago when they had basically morphed into "infomercials" where product placement took over from journalistic prowess.

In fact the main reason why FM became so popular is that is was here for the totally amateur writer who had no sponsorship deals with tackle manufacturers . . . .

I'd far rather read anything written by, for example, Chris Yates, Mark Wintle or Kevin Perkins than any of the current (or past) Drennan Team England characters. (and yes I know Drennan sponsorship ceased some time ago) but you get the picture I hope.

I am not that stupid as to know that the commercialisation of the written word is necessary in this day and age, but the point I am trying to make is that there is still a place for the non-sponsored anglers to write and be read . . . and that place used to be here on FM.

I spent a decade in Norway sponsored by Sensas, but whenever I recommend a Sensas product it is because I've tried it, tested it over time and found it to be an excellent piece of kit, and not because they paid for our clothing and travel expenses or supplied us with cut price ground baits etc.
 
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Frothey

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That was the strength of the “old” FM Peter - broadly speaking it was “unknown” anglers writing for normal people, rather than sponsored anglers fishing top lakes with unlimited time/bait/whatever. Add a sprinkling of experts like Graham, you, Rick, Wol, Ron (lol) and a few others, it was a great blend.
Too many forums these days to get back to the good old days, but don’t try and turn it into an online magazine.......
 

Peter Jacobs

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A few years ago our previous editor Graham did a group test about a selection of Barbel rods which I found good and not confined to any particular manufacturer; with an editors choice of the rods on test and why it was his choice.

As long as this type of article was not written by someone who was sponsored and tied to any particular make of rod then this type of article can be extremely useful, especially at this time of year with Christmas around the corner, and it doesn’t have to be rods only either.

It could also be split into different price ranges ie. under and over a certain price level.

Keith

I knew Graham better than most I guess and his reviews were always totally honest, and if he thought something was awful then he'd call it that way. I was one of the very few who also got to look inside his cavernous garage . . . a veritable Aladdin's cave of tackle.

The main problem with sponsored anglers is that due to contractual commitments you can never be really sure how accurate (or honest) a review really was.

The major exception being Jan Porter, who I also knew well, and is very sadly missed. Over several weekends in Norway Jan would test out rods. reels and poles and spend the evenings writing an honest report of the performance.

People like Stevie Gardner and Dave Vincent wouldn't put their name on anything they had not fully tested and actually endorsed themselves either.
 
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markcw

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I knew Graham better than most I guess and his reviews were always totally honest, and if he thought something was awful then he'd call it that way. I was one of the very few who also got to look inside his cavernous garage . . . a veritable Aladdin's cave of tackle.

The main problem with sponsored anglers is that due to contractual commitments you can never be really sure how accurate (or hones) a review really was.

The major exception being Jan Porter, who I also knew well, and is very sadly missed. Over several weekends in Norway Jan would test out rods. reels and poles and spend the evenings writing an honest report of the performance.

People like Stevie Gardner and Dave Vincent wouldn't put their name on anything they had not fully tested and actually endorsed themselves either.
Kevin Ashurst was very similar, he once broke a rod in two on purpose during a session, he was field testing it, and one of the lads said he would have had it m, The reply was if it's not good enough for me to endorse it's no good to anyone .
 

Frothey

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But then, in a medium that relies on advertising rather than subscription, you are going to limit your potential advertisers if you are saying you are going to be TOTALLY truthful about products - it would be a brave/confident company to risk it!

So the answer is to charge a subscription and be completely independent, but we all know how well that goes for newspapers. And how many “lurkers” would pay?
 

Keith M

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But if you don’t give the truth then it’s back to the same problem and any such reviews will be treated with disbelief in future reviews. Which is probably one of the many reasons why the AM eventually stopped being published???

Isn’t there a standard statement such as “ The opinions given by the tester are not necessarily the opinions of the publisher” or something along those lines which is often used to cover such instances.

Keith
 

Frothey

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t’interweb is the reason the mags have gone - everything is out of date in the mags as notable catches are known about as soon as they happen (including seeing photo’s and video’s). Truthful reviews from actual users, thousands of articles available at the touch of a button. Why buy a magazine? Save a tree......
 

mikench

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The printed word is however much easier to navigate. Yes it's full of adverts but they are not superimposed on part of the article, they don't pop up as you read said article and they can be ignored without mutiple clicks with a mouse or prods of a finger. The online magazine or newspaper for me , an iPad user, is a pita, unusable and very annoying. Rags like the Sun, Mirror, Express and Mail are the worst and are not worth reading in any format imo.

JB will know what the main issues were at AM and will not want to repeat them here. A review from an angler who knows what he is talking about( I'd volunteer but I'm not qualified :rolleyes: ) of say the best rod of each of the Last 5 decades with a comparison of their style, weight, action, longevity and quality would be worth reading. Has progress really been made and is an Acolyte or Sphere so much better than a Normark or Amorphous Whisker. There are many varied opinions on here.

In truth the essence of Angling ie a rod and reel/pole, line hook and bait is the same now as itvwas in Waltons day. You dangle the bait in water to attract a fish. Yes there are different techniques and approaches but there isn't any point trying to reinvent the wheel. You have to try and make it look and feel different. Tackle is designed not just to catch fish.;)
 
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Frothey

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Don’t you have a pop up blocker turned on? Theres also a “reader view” if it makes it easier.

TBH you don’t really get bad tackle these days From the “known” brands, not like years ago. But if something seems too cheap, it normally is!
 

mikench

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I don’t subscribe to any publication on line and view articles or try to via a browser. I do have a pop up blocker on. I agree on the quality of tackle available today and say in the last 20 years or so. Perhaps JB can throw a few of his own ideas into the melting pot and seek views.
 

Aknib

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I think reader submitted articles such as Red Letter Days and such on a regular basis would be good, honest accounts of special angling moments by everyday people always attracted me to Angler's Mail back when they ran the feature.

You could incentivise contributions by rewarding published articles with a modest value tackle voucher or maybe some FM branded merchandise, nothing major just a mug or a scarf, something useful to make it worthwhile for the contribution and wouldn't cost the earth.

I have noticed over the years that when many old threads get resurrected there is often a resurgence in interest and replies, sometimes people just need the suggestion to realise they have a contribution to make so why not have 'sticky threads' or, preferably, a site format within the software capabilities that keeps popular content permanently visible in an e-zine format, maybe things like Your Biggest Angling Blooper or The Day You'd Rather Forget?

For me it's the everyday stuff by everyday anglers that I really enjoy along with the fun stuff like caption competitions, and how about a regular Spot the Fish quiz?

I'm guilty of skipping the whole FM e-zine part and going straight to the forums, how about links within the forums to remind us and notify us of these new (and old) features and articles?
 

Bluenose

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Hi all,

Following on from yesterday's announcement about John Bailey joining the team to write for Fishing Magic, we would be really interested to hear your views about the future direction of the site.
We know the loss of Angler's Mail leaves a gap for many people, and we are wondering how we can help to fill that gap.
What did you particularly like about Angler's Mail? How would you like to see Fishing Magic develop? Is there anyone you would particularly like to see on the site?
Please respond here or send me a PM if you prefer. Thanks!

Kirsty

Since 2013/4 when I was last properly active here I don't think much has changed on FM. That's not a criticism, merely an observation. Despite several editors having come and gone in that time, it seems that the basic shell and modus operandi of the site is still the same. Admittedly I haven’t clicked every link or looked at every sub forum, or looked back at articles, but I think the dates and styles of the articles on the home page tell a story.

In my opinion an active forum was the key strength of FM. Specifically the way in which all members were encouraged to participate, whether that be in forum discussion, submitting articles or attending events. There was a constant stream of new content. Reviews of equipment, digital diaries an excellent mix of articles by top class and knowledgeable anglers but also genuine encouragement for new contributors. It felt like a community.

However, it should be said that those who did contribute articles were then on hand to discuss, and sometimes defend, what it was they had submitted and I think this was what made the site so popular. So with respect to potential content from JB, and others, for me the acid test is whether such contributors are going to participate in the forum thereafter? A healthy debate is great for site traffic, but another article by a ‘name’ on the home page with little in the way of interaction afterwards, well isn’t that just going the same way that the Mail went?

Anyway, a few ideas. Firstly, I still think there are too many sub-forums. I think many a decent thread/discussion gets lost in the ether. For me, the forum categories only need to be basic. General coarse, carp/specialist, match, game, sea, bait box, plus maybe a few more that I've not considered. However there are currently 30+ categories, and that's too many.

The old tackle reviews submitted by members were excellent. No brand hatred, or bias, just genuine 'warts and all' reviews from people who had actually bought kit. The facility was also there to update your review at a later date, which probably made it the best tackle review section I've ever seen. Sadly, I don't think the reviews were fully transferred across when FM was taken over by Fish and Fly Ltd. This was a big loss. Perhaps that could be reincarnated?

I think it would help if members knew what was realistic and what it is that F&F ltd are trying to achieve also? For example YouTube is now awash with some absolute first class video content, warts and all vlogs are increasingly popular, would FM be looking to branch out into producing content like that? Would there be scope for members to take part? Would F&F Ltd be able to assist with technical content for this? Someone to hold the camera, or editing, for example?

Other than that, a regular environmental/pollution feature would be good (I know a few people who could do that) although verging on political, potential dangers to the environment need to be raised.
 

theartist

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Like many others I also skip the main page and just browse the forums, I just had a look and all the articles stop at March/April, not sure if that's a covid thing but with everyone out angling it shouldn't be. Maybe have guest contributors like Binka or do what Maggotdrowners are doing and run a good forum thread on the main page. Not so much 'the look at me I'm catching loads' which you see in mags, rather the fun side of things instead or the passion for the fishing, the angling papers missed out on this badly that is why we buy well written books after all.

Also If John Bailey comes on board hopefully he would chip in on the forum too, I think it would be good if Martin Salter did more often, it seems the thinking angler is often overlooked.

Plus yourself could chip in more often too Kirsty, It doesn't have to be all about catching fish and the wider spectrum could be related too by having those from a different demographic as dare I say it without wishing to offend that the forum is mainly occupied by blokes in who are 50+
 

sam vimes

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I'm sure I've said it before, but my interest in FM starts and ends with the forum. I'm a regular visitor that uses the "new posts" button(s). Because of that, the various sub-forums barely register. If something looks interesting, it gets read regardless. If it doesn't appear somewhere on the forum as a new post, it stands no chance of me seeing it.
 

Mark Wintle

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FM has evolved. Graham Marsden made it a terrific member-led site with masses of articles on a daily basis and anglers like myself contributed hundreds/thousands of articles ( I did 200 myself). Personally it led me to being able write fishing books, make a lot of friends, and as writing opportunities dried up I have moved on to creating videos with another massive learning curve that adds a new dimension to my fishing. As wioth my writing I want to make anglers think!

Apart from fishing I find as many others do that if I want instruction (learning video editing tools for instance) that my first port of call is Youtube rather than buy/borrow a book. Second port of call might be a forum (re video I soon found I was was peering into the world of Hollywood!).
 

Kirsty Hewitt

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Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. I get the general impression that people aren't so interested in a magazine-type site, but would prefer articles in the forum, and the opportunity to discuss them with the author? I like the idea of member articles too. If we could find a way to have a decent review section would people want to contribute to this?

I agree I could chip in more - I certainly find a lot of the discussions interesting but don't have as much time to spend here as I'd like - I will try and rectify that!

Those asking what we at F&F want from the site - really we just want a popular site that people want to visit and contribute to. We are a business, so we do need to cover running costs and ideally make a bit of a profit, but we are not a big faceless company trying to make big bucks from the site. I agree many of the main news sites like the Daily Mail are pretty much unusable due to their attempts to monetise everything, and would hate that to happen here. We are well aware that there is a long history on FM and we want to preserve that and build something genuinely enjoyable to use. It's just working out how we do that that's the challenge! Keep the comments and ideas coming, they really are so useful, so thanks to everyone who has commented so far!
 
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