Groundbait. What do you do?

[rayner]

Thanks, Ray. I just have one question. How do freshwater fish actively search out salt or potassium when I'm almost sure they don't exist in their environment.
I'm well aware of Laguna, he's a very clever bloke, if he says it's so I'll accept it, but how do we know.

 

[Ray Roberts]

Thanks, Ray. I just have one question. How do freshwater fish actively search out salt or potassium when I'm almost sure they don't exist in their environment.
I'm well aware of Laguna, he's a very clever bloke, if he says it's so I'll accept it, but how do we know.

To be honest I have no idea of the mechanism at work. As far as I understand it the fish have a need for certain minerals and seek them out. Deer do a similar thing and take minerals from the ground carp sometimes rub themselves against clay bottoms to actively obtain the minerals they need. This link is to a guy who has put some effort into the use of salt. It’s not Lo-salt and in truth I don’t know why they like it but they definitely do and not only carp. They may, just like us like the taste.

Using salt for carp: myths and realities — Carpfeed

The always out-spoken Mark Holmes gives his opinion on using salt for carp in spring...

www.carpfeed.com

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[no-one in particular]

To be honest I have no idea of the mechanism at work. As far as I understand it the fish have a need for certain minerals and seek them out. Deer do a similar thing and take minerals from the ground carp sometimes rub themselves against clay bottoms to actively obtain the minerals they need. This link is to a guy who has put some effort into the use of salt. It’s not Lo-salt and in truth I don’t know why they like it but they definitely do and not only carp. They may, just like us like the taste.

Using salt for carp: myths and realities — Carpfeed

The always out-spoken Mark Holmes gives his opinion on using salt for carp in spring...

www.carpfeed.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is just a guess but I imagine there is salt in their environment, in rain, in the mud and silt, in the plants and weed that use the nutrients from the mud/silt and then the stuff that fish eat from plants to invertebrates that feed off the plants/weed.
Salt is essential to the nervous system and fish have one so they must need a certain amount of salt in their diet It must be in the food chain; It could be that they like the taste or at times they are not getting enough intake of salt so actively seek it.

 

[rayner]

I'm not interested in what carp like, I'd sooner not try t get carp anywhere near my swim.
When I eventually get by the waterside I have a yearning to fish for bream/skimmers. I wondered if Low-salt would attract skimmers or more carp.
I'm trying to return to how the fishing was before the pig invasion. Local reservoirs would be my first choice, sadly such waters may as well be on the moon they're so far out of my reach.
There are plenty of commercials with a decent head of bream I'll just have to dodge the carp.

 

[The Sogster]

Interesting to see where this thread has gone regarding salt and lo-salt.
I never considered salt before in regard to 'marmite'. I always use it for the yeast content, I seem to remember that some years ago spent brewers mash was considered a great additive.

Marmite reminds me somewhat of this smell from the Brewery on the Bridge in my deep daa homeland.

 

[Ray Roberts]

I'm not interested in what carp like, I'd sooner not try t get carp anywhere near my swim.
When I eventually get by the waterside I have a yearning to fish for bream/skimmers. I wondered if Low-salt would attract skimmers or more carp.
I'm trying to return to how the fishing was before the pig invasion. Local reservoirs would be my first choice, sadly such waters may as well be on the moon they're so far out of my reach.
There are plenty of commercials with a decent head of bream I'll just have to dodge the carp.

I only mentioned carp because most of the existing writings are about them. I don’t really use it like a carp angler does and that’s by introducing rock salt neat into the swim, usually via; a spod, bag or in tablet form tied to the terminal tackle.

I on the other hand incorporate it into the bait and feed. I have caught carp with salted baits but you would at times anyway salted or not. When I’m not actually fishing for carp I find them a nuisance too. I’ve had, roach, crucians, tench, ide and most of the species you would expect. I’m not saying it’s the be all and end all, but it can buy you a few bites on a hard day when others are struggling.


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[rayner]

After looking on Google, searching the use of salt I get the idea, it appears salt is mostly used by pig hunters. With me fishing waters where they are in numbers I think it would be crazy for me to use salt in my baits when I'd rather not see them. This idea is nothing to do with keeping in step with the consensus on the forum.
Already I've said I'll be wanting to avoid them. I've gone through fishing for them, now I'm to do an about-turn.
I already have an idea not to use pellets, even though bream like micros, silver fish in general like micros even larger pellets if they fit in their gobs.
If I do hook any carp my hooklinks will be far too light so things will only go one way.

 

[silvers]

WRT salt ... and Whitty may correct me on this ... I believe that Van Den Eynde “special” had a very high salt content and therefore caused bloodworm to be very active. This may be an urban myth but leads on to my other points:

I like to consider 4 properties for groundbait:
1. Ability to carry loose samples (ie stickier/heavier mix) collant, PV1, dry leam and terre de rivière (types of clay)
2. action .. ie. Does it break up quickly and create a cloud of particles or lay inert on the bottom? Mixing the night before is a way to achieve a more inert mix. Obviously, how you mix with water can affect this.
3. chemical attraction ... is there something that is triggering a feeding impulse (eg. Fish meal vs sweet).
4. Colour ... agree with Alan that darker colours generally work better in clear water, but what about punch crumb or liquidised bread?

I’m much more worried about the first two points, iirc It was an Ian Heaps article about England practise on the Moselle where the difference in action of the ground bait made the difference between catching roach and bream.
so my groundbait menu is pretty short

• white crumb and liquidised for bread fishing
• brown crumb as a bulking agent
• PV1 and TDR as binding agents
• Sensas Gros Gordons (large roach) for chemical attraction
• sensas black river (binding and colour)
• sensas black lake (cloud active and colour)
• fishmeal (chemical attraction for bream)

and just to show that conventional wisdom isn’t all that .... for a short underwater video With a former team mate of Alan and myself ... google YouTube rob hewison and have a look at “bagging on bread”. (Sorry - unable to post links at the mo)


also worth saying that I’m not an expert on ground bait ... much more of a loosefeed person. But keeping it simple works for me.
Two other tips
electric drill and ground bait whisk for large quantities
riddle for smaller quantities
or just stir Vigorously with your fingers

 

[108831]

Sensas black lake is a superb groundbait in my opinion and when mixed fairly dry can be made into a hard ball which doesn't break up until hitting the deck(in water under 8'),no feed in it just the g.bait,caught absolutely massive bags of skimmers feeding two pence piece sized balls every twenty minutes or so,loose feeding three maggots a chuck,the groundbait was critical and the bites dried up telling you to feed another ball...


Sorry Alex,yes Special did have a high salt content for that reason,it actually entailed adding the bloodworm to the groundbait just before balling,otherwise the salt killed the worm...