Honesty? The Best Or Only Policy?

J

John Bailey

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As a bit of a birder, I was fascinated by the recent spat over in New York over the snowy owl that turned up in Central Park. David Barrett thought this was an excellent thing (naturally), and advertised the fact on his Manhattan Bird Alert site. Ken Chaya of the Linnaean Society of New York angrily decried this move, citing it as creating a “flash mob” of bird paparazzi. Judging by the comments, there is no doubt that many New Yorkers took succour from seeing the owl, and other species, during this difficult winter. But equally, what was therapeutic for them in all probability was not balm to the soul of the owl. Basically, the row centred on whether you help the people or you protect the birds.

THE GIANT CHUB SAGA


Not a huge chub so probably would not attract damaging attention

Just as I was pondering this one, a near-equivalent in the fishing world popped up too. A great friend of mine (everyone will be nameless in this piece) caught a clonking great chub, a fish so big he wanted to preserve the anonymity of its place of capture lest an army of chubbers descended. His motives I know were completely sincere. He was thinking of the fish and wanting to minimise the chance of further stress, so he changed the name of the river where he caught it for the press reports. This is all fine and dandy, but for the fact that this chub was recognised by a previous captor who subsequently hit the roof over what he felt was gross deception. Now, I am puzzled by much of this. I see why my friend wanted to make mention of the fish, both for personal reasons, but also because it was a fish of historic note. I also sympathise with his desire not to lead other anglers to the fish’s door. I’m unsure why the previous captor should be so angry about this. Does he want that fish to be targeted repeatedly? Is he outraged morally? Is he simply miffed his giant is not now his triumph alone?

EVERYONE WAS AT IT


JB with one of the last two pound roach in Norfolk rivers. Do you name the river?
The stretch? The swim? What is fair to the fish?


A thirty and a forty hooked and played simultaneously.
Should we keep such fish secret to avoid undue pressure on them?
Of course, the cynic would say we are just keeping our fish for ourselves and, yes, in times past that has been true.


Back in the Seventies, when I was a young Turk on the specimen scene, this sort of thing happened all the time, and was completely par for the big fish course. Everyone was at it. This was the era of secret waters, secret baits, secret rigs, and secret squirrel even. John Wilson gave me a bollocking for revealing the fact I caught one of my first big roach from the Wensum near Norwich. Thereafter, he insisted we did what my chub friend has just done, and report roach, but slightly mislead on the river of their capture. In the end this became nonsense. We caught big roach from all the Norfolk rivers, so it became futile to protect any one of them above others. We were young, silly men, but that is what we all did back than. Sometimes it was cruel. I bitterly regret lying to a friend about the venue of some big perch I was catching in the early Eighties. I denied they came from an estate lake he mentioned, and then a year later the photos of them unmistakably caught there were published in a book written by me and Roger Miller. There was no excuse for that, apart from a selfishness I have regretted for forty years.

FOOL’S PARADISE?


This is a very big chub and would be targeted if its location were to be announced…
but how far will this chub travel once returned? So many questions!


If you fish somewhere like this, secrecy is not paramount!

Until 2019, I had believed this type of behaviour had largely subsided this century. I thought the internet had created a measure of transparency that had punctured the secrecy bubble. Also, personally, I had increasingly withdrawn from the “scene”, and had really devoted myself to exclusive waters where I could fish in serenity. This fool’s paradise was exploded when I guided a client to the capture of the present record grayling, and my serenity was shattered forever. When the capture of this fish was aired, I lost two very dear friends who regularly fished the same river with me. The captor and I had gone to great lengths not to name the river, or the location along it, but this was not good enough for my friends, with whom I have not talked since. I can sort of sympathise, but I don’t know what else I could have done. They knew I was guiding on the river, and that a very big fish was on the cards. I believe there is a duty to history to inform of big and record fish and, anyway, that decision was rather that of my client than of mine alone.

MUDDYING THE WATERS


Two years ago a huge wild brown lived in this tiny chalkstream.
Its presence was a closely guarded secret entirely for its own good.
Neither I nor my friends ever even tried to catch it


Fishing has always been beset by moral dilemmas. False weights. False record claims. There wasn’t a long-running column in one of the magazines called “Snide Rumours and Dirty Lies” for nothing. For my part, I believe it is sometimes justifiable to be hazy about where a big fish is caught from, but I do believe angling history depends on the capture of these big fish being recorded. In Norfolk, I can immediately think of the location of a very big wild brown trout in a tiny chalkstream. There is a potential record barbel still in one stretch of the Wensum. Had I been around the capture of either of these fish, I’d want the world to be told the “hows” of the case, but not the exact “wheres”. Am I being selfish? Am I wanting my fishcake and eat it? Am I simply shielding trophy fish, whose desirability makes them vulnerable? That Owl, that Chub, that Grayling… where does the right way lie? You tell me!

The post Honesty? The Best Or Only Policy? first appeared on FishingMagic Magazine.

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mikench

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It’s a hobby, a pastime, a pursuit, an addictive one I admit but not one to be taken that seriously. Rather than a downright lie I prefer to see a vague and useless description of a northern river or a southern Stillwater . I cannot fathom the reaction of the guy who recognised the fish; it wasn’t his. I liked the article however.
 

sam vimes

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If you wish to keep a venue secret, that's fine and eminently sensible. However, people shouldn't lie about it, forgo the publicity and simply keep your trap shut. The snag is that some folks, for a variety of reasons, want their cake and to eat it. They want the publicity whilst also keeping the venue to themselves. In some instances, that can work. However, you have to be careful about the unfortunate venue you choose to implicate in your lie and that no one will work out the real venue. Don't expect gratitude from regulars on your red herring venue, you've just screwed their fishing up in exactly the way you didn't want your own screwed up.
 

Peter Jacobs

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As a complete aside, that is one gorgeous dog. Irish Setters being one of my favourite breeds.

We had one many years ago who accompanied us to live in Norway from '82 to '85 and she adored the wide open free spaces as well as the snow in the winter . . . .
 

peterjg

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If you catch a big fish either keep it quiet or tell but NEVER reveil the venue. Venues and friendships have been ruined because of this.

On another but similar theme, why do some anglers feel the need to lie and invent fish that they haven't caught?
 

no-one in particular

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I think naming another river as the point of capture is not on, then it becomes a lie which can lead to complications; and not just withholding information which is a different thing. I agree that reporting the fish is OK, for biological interest and knowledge if nothing else. I have never caught a really big coarse fish so the decision has never had to be made for me so; I don't know what way I would go, I will just have to make that decision at the time. There was only one, a black bream caught in a boat that no one was sure if it was a record or not. It meant killing it and taking it ashore but I let it go. I have a bit of a soft spot for big fish, they have survived so much for so long I haven't the heart to just kill it for probably not a very good meal or some record claim. It was just short of the record as we found out later, 6lb something, I cannot remember the exact weight. However, of course the sea is a different matter than a river or lake fish. I don't know what the current rules are but I would claim it as long as I could put it back and the location could be kept a secret otherwise I would just keep quiet.
I very rarely name anywhere I fish on here, not that I think anyone would follow my fish but they might come and kill me. a joke, well; hopefully:)
 
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John Aston

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I have long since grow tired of the cliched mugshots of some smug angler holding the big fish s/he caught from an 'unnamed stillwater ' or 'local river' . Context is all - and while a 14 lb barbel from the Trent might be almost routine, it would be seismic news on my ....err.. 'northern river' . We can call it the Swale for convenience sake .

Deceit is rarely justifiable ,and never so when it comes to lying about the size of a fish. Venue ? It depends on its size and location - mentioning a huge brown trout from Lough Mask is hardly breaching a state secret but what if it's a 4 lb rudd from a tiny farm pond ? Not so smart then. And in such a case , why even mention the fish at all unless it is to pander to the appetite of one's adoring public ?

I guess the real subtext to the discussion is how and why some anglers are so desperate for bragging rights that they will drop everything and hit a new hot water before their rivals do . Who bloody cares ? Anybody who feels defined by the size of the fish they have caught needs to make some new friends - who don't fish. It's absurd , if not quite as risible as the petty wars which break out when a non name angler has the effrontery to catch a huge fish . I can recall one self appointed pike expert pronouncing loftily on the likely veracity of a big river fish - saying words to the effect that he'd be more inclined to believe it if he ( in his infinite wisdom ) had heard of the angler...

My list of personal records is very important - but only to me . Bragging about big fish , 'beating' the guy on the next peg ? Include me out .. I will congratulate you on your big fish ,and I hope you'll do the same for me , but that's it.
 

no-one in particular

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I like the record list, I think it is of national significance, it plays a part in our understanding of the natural habitat of these islands. I find it interesting and it gives as a base point to judge how good a fish is, where would we be otherwise, I am sure we would develop a good idea but it helps to know exactly as a reference point. I wouldn't object to being on it, I would take some pleasure from it, to be known as the man who caught a record Rudd or something, why not, and it would be an endless subject of jokes from fishing friends and family. But I would never actively seek it, I cannot see much point especially if there is already a circus in situ, not a lot of pleasure in that and what chance of you catching the same fish; must be pretty slim and the cost of all the travel and wasted hours probably as well, hardly worth bothering with.
 

108831

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There was a member of FM who spread the word about a big barbel stretch I fished,he plastered it all over this site and another,because he didn't care as he had moved to a stretch of the same river several miles downstream,I told him via PM's that if he didn't delete these posts I would out the venue he had moved to,seemed to do the trick....i'm afraid some stretches needed protecting as they and the limited stocks in them were already under enough pressure...sadly I told people I had caught my best from a different river than it was caught,mainly to be fair to the anglers still fishing for that fish and other large ones inhabiting that length,today it doesn't matter as otters decimated the water....
 

John Aston

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Record fish - I agree about their importance . But I don't care a hoot who caught them - it's only the size that intrigues. I fail to understand the mindset of the po faced 'serious' angler who humble brags about not claiming a record 'because I wasn't targeting roach (etc) '. It's not all about you love...
 
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108831

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I've said it hundreds of times on FM,if I was fortunate to catch a record size fish I would not claim it,the fish itself is more important than the record,having a horde of twitcher type anglers descend on the venue is the last thing I would want,the record and whether my name was alongside it is a total indifference to me,my own catches and those of my friends are of interest,unless I knew you,or someone spoke well of you I would be unsure of how a fish was accurately weighed,as i've seen too many bad exponents of this art...
 

no-one in particular

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I would talk about it because I would be chuffed. I suppose some would think that is bragging but it wouldn't be. My problem with all fish is anyone can catch one, I know a lot of work, time and skill might have gone into a record catch and fair marks to those that catch one like that but, it doesn't change the fact that any tom **** or harry could have caught it by accident. So I wouldn't be boasting it but chuffed about it and sharing that chuff-ness about a magnificent fish that others would appreciate, I would just have to live with the accusations of boasting and smugness but it wouldn't be the case. I wouldn't reveal the location though. And if a friend asked I might tell him but swear him to secrecy but if he told someone else I would have to review that friendship.
 

Keith M

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I’m not that bothered about catching a record of any species and certainly wouldn’t spend my days trying to catch one; although if one came along I wouldn’t complain too much :).

However if I ever did catch a record breaking fish (very unlikely) then I would only be willing to claim the record if I could be vague about where It was caught ie. recorded as the name of the river only or the county it was caught from if it was from a Stillwater.
My witnesses would be able to supply the proof and photos to the record committee if needed, but the actual location would be kept on record somewhere but definately not publicised otherwise I wouldn’t bother to claim the record.

As for general large fish I see nothing wrong in stating that it was caught from ‘my favourite river or stream’ or from a ‘local Stillwater’ in a catch report like ‘How did you get on’ but I’m very careful not to mention the actual name of the venue or its exact location if I was catching especially large fish; and I see nothing wrong in that.

However I can’t see the point in saying that a fish was caught in a river when it was actually caught from a Stillwater or vice versa.

Keith
 
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108831

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Lets think about this,several people on FM are members of the same club,one water is prolific and is heavily pressured,now take away the numbers of fish present by 70/80% and imagine how difficult catching would be,put that with the average size of fish being upwards of double and visualise the difficulty,I can see why people don't tell about venues,but then if they cared that much they wouldn't be trying to win the Drennan cup and the like....
 

theartist

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I think we take it too seriously at times. I sent a photo to The Times to wind dad up, you know see if he recognised the gormless git holding a big fish. Dad being dad didn't despite me saying to look at page (whatever number it was) again. They sent me a Drennan cap and and a cheque for £80 which I didn't expect but was more than welcome given my income, saves me wearing my stupid camo hat sometimes too. It's fun to rock up with a Drennan Cup hat on sometimes as it confuses the ones who think you are a 'Noddy' because of your gear :D

I tried again with a few more fish as I saw no harm in it, got published with them but never ever revealed the river or the area. Thames Trib, Ouse Trib, Southern Chalkstream always keeps things pretty vague. Even naming the Thames, Trent or Severn is ok if the background is neutral. Those who know from a photo or description are already fishing there and those who don't wont.

As an artist I get sent photos of all sorts, some are record breakers some are pbs, some are secret and some not, It kind of makes you see the other side to specimen angling, carp anglers etc. Then you get a picture of a kid with their first fish and you notice the look on the angler's face is the same as that famous dude with the British record you drew, that's the perspective right there. It's fun, show off that fish just don't show off the venue.

End of the day we all pick up titbits of info regarding spots that are producing, anyone who says they don't is ignorant, it's part of being an angler, that ear to the ground even if we don't look for it that info gets in there and sticks, whether we use it or not is up to us. Whether the location should be revealed and who to comes from experience, sometimes telling a mate could be telling the world, and you could be better off sticking it in a mag and sticking to that vague description.
 
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chevin4

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There was a time when I was secretive about venues where I had caught decent fish I would always be straight with close friends but to be fair they would never press me to the exact location. If I was submitting photos to the press I wouldn't lie about the river lake or reservoir where it was caught but just give minimum detail eg it was caught on a Herts Reservoir. In recent times I have become far more open as I find sharing of information has been more than reciprocated. I have fallen out with friends over fishing but the strength of the friendship has endured in the long run. One friend who I have a lot in common is very competitive and only told me what he caught once the close season had arrived. On one occasion I rang him up to ask him how he had got on a certain tench water I had taken him to and showed him the best swims etc he told me he had caught very little but Wendy his wife overheard the conversation and told him in no uncertain terms to tell the truth which was that he had had a red letter day. He was absolutely fine after that and we remember good friends 25years on.
 

John Bailey

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I was fascinated to read all the replies to this piece, and I think they are all valid and shed light on an important issue. Very many of us catch a whopper or two at some time in our angling lives, and it is as well to have in mind your actions thereafter.

I think we are generally agreed that if a fish is noteworthy, then it is a part of angling history and should be recorded in some way. However, it is important to report with discretion. Avoid being sneaky and losing friendships. Avoid looking smug in any photographs. By and large, I think most of us agree that shielding the fish itself is important, and that we should not subject it to avoidable further pressure if we reasonably can? Having said all this, catching the fish of a lifetime should be an exhilarating experience, and a fisher should be elated rather than traumatised by it!

Wild fish I think we agree are especially vulnerable. Many circuit waters and commercials have known fish anyway, and reporting the capture of one of these is not going to amaze anyone or be responsible for the specimen hunter stampede none of us endorse. Undue or increased fishing pressure can however severely disrupt smaller waters, especially on some species that overly vulnerable. I’m thinking of big pike that suffer from recaptures, or big wild browns in intimate streams, as just two examples out of scores. So what I am saying is that not all big fish captures are equal, and some are more sensitive than others. One of you quoted the idea of reporting a good barbel from the Trent as an example that is not going to harm anyone or any fish.

Somehow, the concept of what you pay, or are willing to pay, for a day’s fishing crept in. There is no right or wrong to this one and it is completely up to the individual angler. For what it is worth, I love the concept of paying a hundred quid a year to a North country fly club, and trekking off to some far-flung moorland for your sport. But you are going to find something similar in Wiltshire tough going, perhaps. Personally, though I do guide anglers, I use guides a lot myself, and never resent paying them for expertise any more than I do my plumber or electrician. I will never be as good as someone like Stuart Croft, and it is a privilege to glimpse into their world.

I hope this makes some shred of added sense to a topic that touches many of us at some time or another.
 
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