How many fish are out there

[John Aston]

Perhaps , but who knows about the fish which are never caught at all? I've certainly caught the mug chub , pike , trout and grayling , but what thrills me is the thought of the huge eel which may have been lurking in a big pit and uncaught for decades, the monster wild brown in some unfished lochan and , rather less romantically, the bloody great roach and perch living undercover in carp waters .

 

[sam vimes]

If you read big fish lists of carp, pike, barbel, you will see many repeat captures. In some books by well known anglers their big fish list contain repeat captures caught 2 or 3 times they seem to count these repeats and add them to their list of big fish. Instead of one 30lb pike or carp it becomes three 30lb fish.
A bit misleading when counting the number of big fish in a water.

Whilst the individual might count it as three separate captures (which it is), neither they nor the fishery will usually try to claim it as three different fish. Most of the anglers fishing the same venue will not be under any illusions either. The idea that fish remain uncaught for many years in all but the most out of the way or unfished venues is really not that likely. In most cases, it's simply that there's nothing to distinguish the fish from others or there's no evidence (photos) to compare.

Lake fish are captive, repeat captures become inevitable. My primary stillwater fishery has no more than 300 carp in it. I've caught one of the residents (the recognized biggest in the lake) four times since 2010. The weight had increased from 16lb in 2012 and is now over 30lb. It tends to come out about twice a year. If I ever fish for the carp again (I've not fished for them in around five years) and I catch it at over 30lb, you can be assured that I'll be quite happy to consider it a personal best despite having first caught it nine years ago at 16lb. I won't try to pretend that it's a different fish though.

 

[Philip]

The Carp world in particular has shown many examples of fish that have managed to avoid capture even in very hard fished waters. Of course you have to believe the stories as the fish was never caught to prove the point but in some cases the fish became so well known by so many anglers its very unlikely –read impossible- to think it was just another myth.

Examples include fish such as the Sandy fish which was in Summerleaze..that was a Carp of record proportions at the time & seen by a large number of people, and I think even filmed on one occasion but was never caught.

Another very well known example were some Carp in Wraysbury 1 ..fished round the clock by some of the best Carp anglers but some of the stock just never got caught. One being the famous leather that was in the same size bracket as Mary so a 50lb+ fish that was never ever banked. Although details are sketchy it does seem this fish was stocked into Wraybusy at the same time as Mary herself but while Mary went on to be caught numerous times the Leather was never landed.

The other famous capture avoider in Wraysbury was a 40lber called Olive. This fish was banked it seems just once …by Chris Ball back in the 80s or 90s on a floater. …it was then seen and photographed on many occasions after that in the water but was never ever caught again.

Dave Lane had a good story about Olive that may shed some light as to why perhaps some of these fish never get caught. He had baited a spot with Bolies and Hemp in the edge and watched from a tree top as Olive came round the margins and moved over his bait. However instead of going down onto the bottom to feed like the other Carp, Olive held back and sucked the hemp up a foot above the bottom…he could physically see her gills working as she sucked and all the silk weed being pulled upwards and the grains of hemp flying upwards into her mouth while the bolies remained unmoved on the bottom.

Obviously its impossible to tell if the fish had somehow “learnt” to feed like that to avoid capture or whether it was just the way it always fed but the fact is that it was never going to be caught on standard rigs or baits. There was a well known comment about Wraysbury which was something like 50% of the fish made up 90% of the captures and I think that probably holds true on alot of waters. Obviously people will have different opinions on the % but the underlying point being some fish just dont get caught anything like as often as others.

The other thing to keep in mind is that in the cases above these involve large Carp that are easily seen. It’s a sobering thought that perhaps the same thing could be happening with the smaller species as well, with some individual fish never ever getting caught. However being smaller we just never really see or recognize them enough to know for sure.

 

[peterjg]

Following on from my previous post in this thread on the lake mentioned I had my own rowing boat and when there were no other anglers present used to sometimes spend hours drifting across the lake. Very often the lake was gin clear and you could see the bottom, the weed, the gravel bars and the fish. The lake had done carp to 55lbs but on two occasions I saw two different carp which were enormous - can't be certain but I don't think that they had been caught? Some fish just do not eat bait?

 

[108831]

Or do you over Peter,or reside in territories not accessible,lets be honest fish soon suss where we can't fish,a lake I fished last week is small,gin clear,with mainly tench and big perch the intended targets,in the centre of the pond overhead electric cables cross the lake,so a section some ten yards wide or so is roped off with no fishing allowed,there are 16/20 decent grass carp up to 30lbs,they all lay in this section,only odd fish venture out for a viewing of the surrounding water,two mirrors have been released from a neighbouring pond,they sit there too,not stupid fish,I don't think the grassies get caught,ever....

 

[Philip]

Your lake sounds familiar Peter ...wasnt the KIL was it ?

 

[ian g]

I'd agree about repeat captures I had two such episodes . A lock pool in a local canal was a noted perch spot I caught the same perch with a distinctive dorsal fin 3 times over a winter and I also had a friend capture the same fish . On the Severn I saw a barbel caught by a well known local angler with a piece missing out of it's tail . From the photograph I recognised the stretch which was one of my haunts , I was off that week and fished there catching the same fish . A mate wanted to try the stretch later in the week . On arrival a chap was fishing the spot I had been in , we discussed the fishing and I showed him the photograph I had taken , he'd also caught this fish , a scrapper double , I couldn't believe it when a couple of hours later , he had caught it again .

 

[no-one in particular]

I often hear this story of a perch that was foul hooked in the eye and the angler unhooked it but the eye was still on the hook so he left it on as bait. He put it back in and 10 ins later he caught the same perch. I don't know if that is true but I have heard it a few times over the years.

 

[peterjg]

Whitty, I know the lakes you mention, I was a member for a couple of years. Fish soon learn which areas are safe! The 50 acre lake I mentioned has no area out of bounds but there were a couple of bays in which I just could not get a run although carp spent time there?

Philip, no not the venue you mention. The lake in question has a publicity ban and although I am no longer a member (moved away and no longer fish for carp) I feel that I should honour the no publicity rule.

 

[SarahNolan]

When I go fishing with my father, we often change the location, because the catch is not always good !

 

[no-one in particular]

When I go fishing with my father, we often change the location, because the catch is not always good !

Hi Sarah and welcome, not a bad idea. I do that quite often, either the swim or the location if it just feels like is dead.

 

[barbelboi]

Indeed they do and it was Dr Stuart Clough that found it out on the R. Frome. He radio tracked a dace and it moved every night around 6 miles up river, returning to the same spot it started from come the following morning.

I think it's horses for courses - here the dace that you find in certain areas at the start of the season tend to be there until at least October, sometimes November, then you have to locate them again. Being a daylight fisherman though I have no idea if they 'disappear' at night before returning....

 

[108831]

Hi Sarah,that often does the trick,often however the fish lay there laughing at our pathetic attempts to catch them....

 

[Specihunter]

They are looking at the local salmon population, up here on a few rivers. And from what I read about last year's survey alot of salmon Park were lost to predators. Before making it to the solway and out in the open.

 

[Bluenose]

I came across this on twitter. Fascinating I thought.

High resolution insights into the February behaviour of multiple predator and prey in a German lake

 

[The bad one]

They are looking at the local salmon population, up here on a few rivers. And from what I read about last year's survey alot of salmon Park were lost to predators. Before making it to the solway and out in the open.

Very true and is known as the Smolt Drop.